Why not have losses, rather than being sized based (ie troops vs troops) have them be spal based? This intuitively makes a lot more sense and circumvents the bomb structures issue I pointed out in another thread.

(before posting formulas I want to see if the idea is well received)

so if i'm a netting country with 0 spies, and you have 500 spies, you have infinitely higher spal, therefore you can kill all my buildings in one op?

the problem with spal has always and will always be that PER ACRE goes up so much if you drop to 1A

also, spies are freaking expensive...

err but that was kindof an aside... i'd prefer it to be based on number of spies

in regards to expense, why not make spy tech bring spy expense down somewhat?

spies should be able to cause more damage than they currently do...perhaps damage could be causally related to your number of spies versus your opponents land.

so if you have 100,000 spies on 1,000 acres your SPAL is 100.

you spy a country with 10,000 acres, but their SPAL is only 25, so you easily (lol) break them, but then the damage you cause is related to 100,000 of your spies, versus the 10,000 of your opponents acres, so you're doing damage of 10 SPAL. how that amounts to the % of buildings/bushels/cash/units destroyed/captured i don't know.

kinda makes more sense to me than damage done in relation to units that aren't even a part of the operation.

Heh, i like that.... but then it has two effects, make spies more effective & cheaper... think that might be overkill

how would it be overkill when spies barely work as is =p

though on the other side. my SPAL of almost 3 has bounced a good 20 spy ops on me in express. and much to my chagrin i have not yet failed a spy op. first one went through on a dict with 5x my spies and dude even had some spy tech...what a sucker!

well, I have always been a proponent of spies/MAX(Acres,1000) and such to ensure that things don't get out of hand, as well as formulas that have similar (MIN damage calculated, damage threshold). I would also be amenable to total spies. In fact, I probably prefer total spies, but just expect that people in general prefer SPAL.

I think that it has been empirically shown in the real world that the impact of the buildings you can destroy is not related to those that you have built.

Also, in reponse to spy expenses - they are so expensive as it is that they are practically unusable at a "safe" level (one where you don't fail a ton of ops and lose a ton of spies).

Having spy tech make spies cheaper would be a not-pro-netting change but it wouldn't be over-powering in anyway either, unless it was made to be.

now it's like, why would i even get spy tech if i'm going to lose thousands of spies on a failed op on someone with 10 whole spies anyway?

how about one server where spies are not profoundly weak?

see if the guys who are always saying spies need to be strengthened actually go to the server and support it

Who will play on this server? Would it be primary style? Why would people be using harmful spy ops? Things very rarely devolve to that in primary.

Spy ability should be SPAL, but not mine versus yours.

It should be that the only land taken into account are the defending person's.

So if I have 100 000 spies on 1 acre and spy someone with 200 000 on 8000 acres, the fact I've dropped to 1 acre doesn't matter. It would be the 100 000/8000 versus 200 000/8000


In terms of power, spies should absolutely be more powerful. Especially things like bomb buildings and bomb airbases (I have yet to have that work at all). More than that, they should remain effective. I hate how once I've done a few ops in a kill run, they stop working.

As for cost, I think spies should remain their cost right now. Spy tech should lower the cost a little bit, but I think we should also go the other way. Have spies actually worth some real NW. That way even if they still cost a fair bit with spy tech, you know you're at least getting the power and NW out of it so the cost is worth it.

Something closer to those lines would seem a bit more logical but even then it's questionable.

Your own SPAL being used as a means of measuring success for offensive ops doesn't make a great deal of sense as the op is being done within the victim's country. When applying this logic to the real world Vatican City would hold the most powerful offensive intelligence network in the world if they employed like 3 spies.

SPAL on defense makes a little more sense, as 1000 spies could more easily monitor 100 acres than 2000 spies could monitor 5000 acres. It's still kind of goofy in situations where someone with 500k spies is failing ops on someone with 15k spies because of SPAL though. Surely the 15k spy guy would be aware of the 500k spies encroaching on his little plot of land, but not one of the 500k spies can successfully gather the desired intelligence?

Short of tweaking to be based more on raw spy count I don't know what can be done about that. Has anyone ever pondered the idea of having some sort of middle ground, where in situations like that the op could still be successful (maybe partially successful for destructive ops?) due to overwhelming spy numbers but the aggressor still have some casualties and the defender be aware of who did the op?

Who will play on this server? Would it be primary style? Why would people be using harmful spy ops? Things very rarely devolve to that in primary. [/quote]

people who view earth2025 as a war game will love this server

the average war gamer who we are trying to attract will prefer this server to the servers that cater to netter acquisition style games

it is obvious that war games outsell acquisition games no contest

why dont we let earth2025 live up to its massive war game potential?

would they? how many people would you attract do you think? other than you I haven't seen any support for a spy-centric server....

ok obviously the three of us on this thread plus llaar plus the players who attack vigorously on express and the other indi servers

qzjul this game is neeter dependent only because we have not reached out to attackers do that and u will wonder why u thought netters were the future of this game

at least try it

on the topic of spy ops, I think the harmful ops like esp, burning oil and stealing cash should take more imo, would add more excitement.

"In terms of power, spies should absolutely be more powerful. Especially things like bomb buildings and bomb airbases (I have yet to have that work at all). More than that, they should remain effective. I hate how once I've done a few ops in a kill run, they stop working."

I dont know how you managed with that, SoF has done a bunch of bomb airbases on ICN's all jetter countries for readiness while we farm them and seems to be working fine

someone posted up a suggestion for a spy server this sounds kind of ridicilous we definately dont need more servers or more people spread out on more servers we need more players on the servers we have

Ivan
Survival of the Fittest