hmmz, i hope its a bug, but seems my res tech arrived after the three penalty turns were used...

in regards to res tech being returned, i guess that is a penalty but it wouldnt be if u were returning a few hundred million bushels, there would be no penalty

havent checked if food is returned before the three turns or after, but i hope its before.

they are supposed to arrive after atm.

it was changed that 3 turns and then goods after debate what players had with admins.

at FFA 1B bushels stocked and recalls those = huge loss.

... Thats the point!!! its meant to be a deterrent. if you wait the full time, they get returned without loss. if you have to return early, you suffer the decay loss.


This is just stupid. exactly why i, and a lot of others, didnt want this return goods button in the first place.

3 turns is plenty of deterrent, no?

No.

It's really not qz.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

What's the exact issue with this?

izarc wants his goods back before 3 turns have used and apparently foogie wants same.

You'd rather something like a 12 turn recall? or what?

=/

would rather a percentage loss(like i have said many times before) but if the three turns actually hurt a bit by food decay from your stockpile, i'd be happier with that.

I mean, as it is now, u wouldnt even get the added expenses from military returning.

3 plain jane turns and then getting ur goods is stupid.... May as well just take the option of recall out. just makes for lazy pricing and has no real deterrent

Of course you wouldn't get added expenses from military returning. Military on the market is already counting for expenses so it is still there.

qz, I'm one of the many people who's been arguing for a time-delay on return goods. It makes sense that goods would take the same amount of time to return from the market as it took to place them on the market. If this were instituted (without a reduction in the 3 turn cost for goods recall), I personally would be satisfied.

To me, that is the ideal solution.

However, since that solution has been offered many times -- it seems clear to me that the administrators as a whole have rejected it. As a result, I support alternate proposals such as this one which help to redress the imbalance caused by the recall goods function.

As far as solutions go, this is a relatively good one. It creates consequences for late-game abuse of the recall-goods function, but doesn't hurt newer players who accidentally sell the wrong thing and want to correct the error.

It doesn't solve the entire problem, but it would be a positive step.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

Hmm, no we haven't rejected it out of hand really; It's just not something that could be added in very quickly at all; it'd require an overhaul of the market tables in the DB, and a rewrite of a bunch of code. So it's something we've just kindof ignored for now, as I think you and maybe one or two others were the only ones to bring it up, and it'd be a significant change to the code&db to implement it.

Also it would negate the usefulness of the anti-suicider protection recall affords; the "recall your goods every 2nd day when you login, and put them all back on the market" trick.

But it doesn't eat food, right?

qz, when I first suggested it, the time delay would only be 2-3 hours. Then, players interested in protecting their goods could still do this and get the 18 hour bonus the next day with only one extra log in, so I don't think that is a viable reason not to implement this. It makes players have to work a little harder, but I think that's the point. The idea is to remove the instant gratification.

Granted, the programming could be an issue, but I'm really surprised it would be that much code. Since you already have the recall goods implemented, all you would need is some random delay. Is it not possible to easily create an event to occur at a set time in the future?

This is where we really don't see eye-to-eye qz. You see a trick which lets you protect yourself from suiciders. I see an immense advantage being given to stone wallers.

I do not think that the defender should get the best of both worlds in all situations. If you want to protect your goods, fine, but those goods should not also be immediately available for stonewalling (or other purposes).

The way it is now, strikes me as being very much like the kind of game that a kid invents to play with over indulgent parents. "All this stuff is protected, you're not allowed to touch it -- Now I need it, so I'm allowed to use it".

Personally, I think that this game should be about choices. You should have to choose if you want goods on the market to protect it from suiciders, or on hand to stonewall. The current situation just leads to everyone doing the same thing -- which is rather boring.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

the fact that ffa'rs complained about it is a good thing. it shouldnt be an option that makes everyone who uses it happy-go-lucky. the game was designed to hold goods on the market for x days for a reason...

Fair enough to have this new get-outta-jail card but why go outta your way to make it so easy to obtain?

hm well i wouldn't be opposed to a recall that takes time, if we additionally made it so that we could specify additional hours for goods to stay on market...

I like it how it is. If you want to argue the market system I could pose an argument with sound facts from the real world as to why there shouldn't be a delay to place goods on the market in the first place.

Most of the time people don't even use the recall option. I think I used it once this entire set and that was to de-stock. Which in previous sets I didn't use it because I couldn't sell more than 2B worth of goods at a time...

I don't think its as big of a problem that some of the others on this thread do, but thats just my opinion. And as they say opinions are like assholes: everyone has one and they all stink.

u never heard of shipping time requiem? items aren't magic'd to the market directly after manufacturing in most cases.


Anyway, foog's suggestion of delayed returm has a lot of merit.

If we cant have that, then receiving market goods should happen before the 3 turns are used.

The only reason people currently recall goods on a daily basis is to hide bushels every other day from possible suiciders or to avoid the upkeep costs of those goods while playing turns. Is there a real reason to make these changes? Perhaps I missed the real need here. I think it seems logical that a recall would take time but it is a lot of recoding. It also seems logical that there would be decay over the 3 turns for recalling large amounts of bushels, but that leads to huge penalties for protecting against suiciders.

I think that's a reasonable solution.


Is that a bad thing, really? If you play it safe, and protect your goods from suiciders, you don't finish as well. If you choose to risk the suiciders, and get through, you get a higher NW.

I see no reason why it's a bad thing when taking a risk has a higher pay-off than playing it safe.

-Fooglmog
Guy with no clue.

This thread has merit.

I found out the hard way about not getting goods back until after the turns by having two turns of food shortages once. ;P