ok lincoln, explain to me how you would fix the ways you can exploit a def pact or an off pact??

the tech one is easy, but if you are going to fix one you might as well fix all of them

switching tech to a shared pact is far from easy. in regards to running a turn, the query needed to calc all your levels would take longer to return a result(at least the first time until you or an ally techs again) and i would cause a strange shift in defense.

Admins are trying to encourage land grabbing.. not discourage it by making it even harder to calc the break.

A simpler method to stop leeching would be to keep track of how much your allies teched in last 24 hours.

Tho, there isnt a huge problem with leeching... JJ would have easilly won without it. allowing someone to 'leech' tech off you is quite strategic for a techer who wants a good def ally in return.

I simply stated that it'd be nice to see the record broken without a leech... not that they needed to go. I think res allies as they are now work very well. and, if it aint broke.... don't fix it!

ok warster so we are in agreement it should be fixed
and that the fix is easy
excellent


as to your question to me
the problem has already been fixed

you could leech jets if you had 100 jets an an ally had 10,000,000. if he sent you 2.5M jets per attack then that would be leeching and i would be opposed to it. it would be exactly analogous to the current situation with tech allies.

but that problem has already been fixed



The defense ally who has 100 times your turrets only doubles your defense, only doubles it, merely doubles.

that problem was diagnosed and solved long ago
all dantzig's proposal does is apply the same safeguards already built into the def alliance to tech alliances.

if you have 1000 turrets and your huge ally doubles that to 2000 turrets how can that be said to be giving you some outlandish advantage??? the reason the rule that he can only double your defense is to avoid leeching. it would be unfair if you got a quarter of his 4 million turrets when you only have 1000. that is why the rule was put in, to prevent leeching, to prevent the same activity that currently goes on in tech alliances and leads to the atrocities like the last set.

the same is true of off allies. long ago at the initial stages of earth2025 they realized that allowing someone to exploit a huge offensive ally would be unfair. so they built in the safeguard that he can only double your offense. Most sets i carry an air force equivalent to 10M jets but being my ally would have been worthless to someone who only had 100 planes. the safeguards that need to be built into tech alliances are already there in the offensive alliance.

if it helps to think of it in relation to the other alliances, just think of it in terms of your ally can only give you what you yourself are capable of generating just like in the other alliances.

if he researches 4000tpt but you are capable of only 15tpt then that is what you get, 15 he should not be able to more than double your output just like a massive jetter ally can not more than double your offense.

with this solution the game is symmetrical, consistent and free from one more exploit

Admit it lincoln..your complaints only pop up when someone has won by a large margin and played within the current system. You deem it because that person won by such a large margin that the game isn't fair and must be somehow fixed to make it more fair.

BTW, Warster wasn't agreeing with you that Ally pacts needed to be fixed. He merely was asking for your opinion about how you would fix the Tech Ally pact, but also asked that you add in your further insights to how you think all the other ally pacts should work in your view.

Obviously, if you can't successfully topfeed the top country or even hit the top country at the end of the set, then to you, the game needs to be fixed. You're just a suicider after all.

fortunately since LaE is defunct there is no strategic imperative to respond to any of the muppets

and with that solution you want make so its alot better for techers then it is now??

Because if you make it based on how much you can tech for can produce a turn then if you have a techer ring and then all tech 4000 TPT you would get 4000 TPT from your allies because of the limit of only doubling your own production correct??

currently you would get 1200

so basically instead of getting roughly 432,000 tech from allies if they tech for a full day

you would get 1,440,000 tech instead

if you make it like Off allies and only give 25 % thats still 3000 points a turn

that makes it 1,080,000 points a day

Tech leeching is in effect foreign aid. Why is it if foreign aid was removed tech leeching is allowed to go unchecked?

Tech leecing does not give a small advantage to a player as some of you have stated, but a huge advantage. Think about this situation:

I am a casher who gets 3 tech allies with 1000tpt early game. I buy some bus and res tech off the market. (just enough to get the 10% each turn from tech allies). For 50 turns spent researching at 1000tpt, I get 15k worth of tech free (3 allies) - which would have cost me 50mil.

Keeping in mind that 1000tpt only requires 4k+ acres, that 50mil savings at that point in the game is a huge advantage, taking into account the compounding effect.

And this is just talking about 50 turns of leecing from each ally at 100tpt.

Correcting, 1000tpt.

gotta love noobs. Thanks for the laugh gregg.

Congrats (late). What is the meaning of DR ?

BINGO. Is this case, the casher could just buy 1k tech points in each category (as long as his allies are nice and tech 1 turn at a time) and rake in 10% of everything his 3 allies produce for basically the rest of the set.

However, I started a thread to discuss this issue in B&S. Some of these comments are great but I'd like to see them over there instead of this thread dedicated to congratulating JJ.

jedioda - DR = Diminished Returns. It's the sliding scale for returns on attacks and spy ops that diminishes the more you do.

it's the dealy-bob that keeps people from gaining too much by attacking a defenseless noob.

Diminishing Returns, basically, the amount of land and other things that you gain from attacking is dependent on how many times a country has been attacked in the last 24 hours. the more that they have been attacked, the less you gain from attacking them.

Spy ops don't diminish in effectiveness but the chance of success diminishes with each op.

Umm dan that's what he said, sliding scale was for attacks

Yeah I think 40 mil is definitely possible with the right market conditions.

Thanks dantzig - guess I coulda explained that a little better.

40 M nw with 1800 turns : impossible. 33 already seems magic.

LOL...and just a post or two before he asked what DRs were??

33 ain't magic. 33mil NW = $8.25bil w/ NW @ $250 per point for 1800 turns = $4.5mil per turn production average.

congrats JJ, you didn't get deleted. :-P

JJ should play in the alliance game. Must be one out of the 14 alliances that would be willing to put up with him.

no, i'm pretty sure he should quit cheating

no bumpin thread lol