This is what I think will happen when the US right wing comes to their senses and realize that they are never going to win another election.

First, they will feel very worried about the composition of the leadership cadre that gets in. Assuming Joe Biden wins, he will immediately go into the Oval office never to be seen again. At that point, the leftist pigs will start to turn up the pressure on the right, which will result in some protesting (peaceful) at first. Then the leftist politicians thinking they control the situation will attempt to put down the demonstrations, which will result in acts of civil disobedience, inconveniencing political life. whereupon the left will attempt to crack down harder, which will bring out the militia groups that are already organized, and most likely better armed and trained than the police forces who will be resigning and quitting if not actually joining the rebellious factions. At this point, the Clinton Archpelagos will start running out of food, and supplies, might not have water, or electricity due to those disruptive actions by the right wingers. Meanwhile, Bubba in the blue states is still producing food and fuel, while the leftist cities starve in their ignorance. The revolution ends with a decisive right wing victory (since they still have their guns). Then, the left can have their "streets" in the city, while Bubba and the right BBQ late into the evenings. The leftists have complete control of their cities, and can order everyone there aroung and no one can own anything, except those few in charge who own everything and can dictate who gets to use it, or have it. Slowly but surely the population starts to decline either through fleeing people trying to survive, or starvation/dehydration, illness, lack of medicine, food, water, heat, electricity, but they've still got the "Streets".

Cerb, you sound like a guy on youtube I use to watch from time to time. If I can recall who he is I will post it.

Cerb=Alex Jones?

1) Biden won't win. There are too many silent Trumpers and too many disenfranchised Bernie Bros that he won't carry the Electoral College (Trump may lose the popular, but win Electorate).

2) Most people are just voting for prom king, they still support the school even if their favorite candidate doesn't win. Most people in the US are complacent statists and like status quo, they just want to pick the winner in a crapfest horse race, where both horses should have gone to the glue factory long ago.

Eat your neighbors.

These percentages:
1% Biden wins EC+PV and goes on with no disturbance to take the presidency in Jan 20.
1% Trump wins EC+PV and there is no legal aftermath to that election.
20% Trump wins EC but loses PV and there is no legal aftermath, just some new debate over the EC that again leads to nowhere.
Balance% = fluff happens.

It may be that Trump refuses to step down until forced to, just like he suggested he might not accept the election result in case he lost in 2016, why would he now? I think the plan for 2016 may take place this time. That is when Biden wins, the Trump administration and other actors will sow doubt in that election result. It may be effective enough to convince enough of the military establishment that they shouldn't intervene.
It may be that one state or two has to be recounted again and again and legal battles draw on for months.
It may be that Trump somehow bans mail ballots or postpones the election.
It may be that militia is placed to "guard" the voting offices thereby intimidating black voters so theres a lower turnout in those groups. That could be done very strategically in the places where it matters.
A new impeachment trial thingy is not unlikely either.
It could be a combination of some of these scenarios.

Almost all westernized countries have a very low incidence of election fraud and yet the majority if not all of them have mail-in ballots, and it works very well. Sowing doubt in these practices serves two purposes;
1. You can blame the election result, if unfavorable, on them.
2. You can make states remove the option, thereby reducing the turnout, which helps Trump.

If I were trump I’d want to lose so I could enjoy the few years of life left.... All of these politicians are so old.

FFS Cerb would just fluffing retire and go away already. You keep posting bigoted political conspiracy theory's. We all know you hate women and kids and brown people, we get it, your opinions have been repeatedly and solidly memorialized. Congrats on having started the most threads of all of the "C" usernames. I went backed and looked, the only thing you do more than rant politically is threaten to retire.

Genuinely, I don’t understand how Americans put up with their political system. Having two parties to choose from, with two dumb AF old men as options for President?

Riot for a better electoral process.

Why are people talking popular vote?

Coalition governments are a joke.

(Question is separate from statement.)

Are they?

Who wants to move to them in masses?

BTW, Cerbz is that " Get off my lawn" guy down the street :P

are they not?

Truedowe can't get a number of mps to govern unless gagmeet allows it and gets what he wants in a horse trade.

Do you know what the word bigot means? Sounds like you’re the bigot

There is an excellent book called "When Religion Becomes Evil" Written 20 years ago.


Step 1. Requires literal reading of the text.
Step 2. Blind Obedience. We're definately at this stage in the national Evangelical conversation
Step 3. Establishing the ideal time. We're moving into this phase, where you begin to dehumanize and make less than those that disagree with you.
Step 4. The End Justifies any means. This is where you will begin to see book burnings, arson, smaller acts of violence and terror. (Shooting aborition clinic doctors.)
step 5. Holy war (Domestic Terrorism.)

I truly do believe as the religious right loses power they elements of them (a smaller percentage at each step) will go down these 5 steps.

It happens in Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, at some level in different parts of the world. Either today or in History.

My concern, is this tendency + libetaraian anarchists (and progressive anarchists) form a large enough coalition to create a period of instability that threatens our country.

I don't think it has to happen, but I do think its a possibility we need to be aware of. But I don't think we're tehre yet, its going to take being out of power for 5-20 years for the religious right to move to stage 4 and 5. I think....

I still don't see the threat from the religious "powers" I mean, where is it, give me examples of this, I do see the atheist push to ban more religious practice, school authority will shame you publicly if you even come close to attempting a prayer in a classroom, vast majority of school boards and teachers are liberals and don't tolerate anything religious unless you're a Muslim, the mainstream media continuously mocks Christians, the government itself has moved away from pushing any religious activities, both parties....I just don't see a religious threat, those of you who do need to stop believing handmaid's tale is real, it is not and will never happen in this country, where's the evidence that we're moving in that direction?

Side note, I was brought up Catholic and I consider myself very open minded, fluff religion, to me they're all wrong, their interpretation of God is garbage and hypocritical in many cases, and no I'm not atheist either, I do believe there's something bigger than all of us, what that is....I have no clue 🤷

Cerb the chan I believe on youtube is called mark my words.

#TrumpTrain

How can elected representatives from different parties having to come together to negotiate on laws be less democratic than a winner take all two-party system where voters have to compromise on their personal values not to just support their “team” but make sure the other team doesn’t win?

I have right wing views on economics, taxes and business, yet everything else the republicans do and stand for more or less is BS imo.

You also had 2 republican administrations who in boom economy added to the federal debt greatly and all the while trying to trip the obama administration over for trying to lend money in a recession to the point that US treasury bonds were downgraded lol. The tea party is silent now lol. The hypocrisy is not lost on me. This is not the part of the Republican economics I am for.

So I'd be forced to vote against my beliefs in a major way no matter who I vote for if I was in the US. The only reason you guys dont feel that way is that you are molded by biased media(there are fluffs on both sides lol) to fit into a preset mold of what is a democrat or a republican voter.

Exactly. There are no viable alternatives in the US.

Their system crams green voters, socialists, social progressives, unionists, and creatives into one tent with “Kill The Rich” communist revolutionaries, fascist bashers, the “add more genders to the pile” lot, and then gives them moderate, corporate shill Joe Biden to vote for.

The religious conservatives, economic liberals, and libertarians get stuck in a tent with “Open carry to the supermarket” gun nuts, conspiracy theorists, anti-vax Karens, actual racists, and then goes “You better vote Trump or the other lot will win.”

That’s how you get Warren progressives voting for Middle of Nowhere Biden, or extremely Christian families voting for a pornstar humping, fluff grabbing Trump.

No wonder progressive Bernie Bros are like “Why vote?”

"anti-vax Karens" got me. :) :) :) :) :)

Horse trading your values or beliefs or pretending to be something isn't how I define democracy.

Great. I'll trade you guns for newspapers. We take away one we take away two. Hashtag not Canada.

How do you define it?

Well, that's interesting you put us in the basket you think we fit, turns out there tons of liberals that are anti-vax Karens, are Christians and support second amendment, and want to be allowed to open carry, you should come to Oregon and Washington State some time, you'll be scratching your head wondering why you got it wrong, meanwhile I know many conservatives that don't like Trump but do support his policies, we have them on both sides, we aren't exclusive to any party and that's why elections don't always go as the media thinks it will, the people that are the loudest get the attention, but they certainly aren't the majority.

Horse trading your values is exactly what Americans have to do because of the two party system.
An analogue to what you are argueing is that a petrol car is better than an electric car because the electric car uses too much petrol. See the problem here?

Yep, I'm a gun toting, pick-up truck driving, oil and coal working, pot growing, single payer healthcare wanting, just gave away my best friend at a gay wedding libertarian. I despise Trump with a passion so strong I could shove him down a flight of stairs, but I hated the man 20 years ago when he was a left wing shill too.

The American two party system is the worst system in the whole world . . . except for all of the rest. We've had the same constitution since our inception and we've been the preeminent world economic and military power for nearly 200 years. We are certainly not perfect, but we seem to be doing something right.

We've also been more divided, had worse presidents, and been governed worse that we are now. These times will pass and we will emerge stronger on the other side. It still beats being French.

How would you define it?

I don't speak Swedish, sorry.

It's not mean to be a conclusive and comprehensive list of "These people go here, those people go there" but.. yeah, if I say to you "I don't think gay marriage should be legal" then it would be safe money to assume that I'm conservative, probably religious and possibly a Republican voter. If I said instead "I believe the government's only role should be national security and protecting property rights" you could probably bet on me being a libertarian, definitely an advocate for small government, supporter of capitalism, and (again) likely to be a Republican voter.

Yet, a libertarian wouldn't support a government banning gay marriage because it goes against the ideology - do as you wish as long as no harm comes to anyone. Likewise, a conservative Christian wouldn't be okay the legalising of prostitution or the easing of access to abortions but both are things that libertarians think should be legal and up to the individual as to whether or not they engage with such activities.

So why do they both likely vote Republican? It's because the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Conservatives hate social progressives who want to open up marriage for gays, abortion clinics for loose women, and introduce tolerance of non-binary genders to schools. Libertarians hate social progressives because they think speech should be censored if they can declare it hateful, that gender quotas should be set to enforce diversity and representation on boards, and the government should spend more money on welfare - meaning more taxes. Social progressives lean Left and vote Democrats.

It happens on the Left as well (don't worry). Green voters and climate change advocates want to shut down factories, stop deforestation and put taxes on pollution emitters. But unions also vote Left traditionally, the same sort of people who are negatively impacted by factories being shut down, forest work being culled, and taxes on pollution being passed on to working class consumers. But the enemy of their enemy is their friend.

Green voters will voters will have to swallow their pride and vote alongside workers of dirty factories because they both have a common enemy in the Right-leaning capitalist who the Greens see as the biggest roadblock to address climate change, and who workers can't not shake the feeling they're being exploited by them when hundreds or thousands of frontline staff lose their jobs while CEO's, board members and shareholders all get a tidy payout from the money saved.

An NRA-card carrying, gun owning Dem isn't fascinating. Of course they exist. Of course anti-vaxx Karen's also have gay friends and it makes them mad that they can't marry in some states. There will always be anomalies or exceptions or outliers to the norm.

What *is* weird is that Conservative Christians who generally support the Republican Party *still* support it under Trump, a man who has a list of sexual allegations far longer than the Book of Genesis. He wasn't grabbing pussies because they'd hidden a Bible inside them.

It's weird but it's not unfathomable. Your two-party political system produces this.

tl;dr - how many unsuccessful presidential nominee candidates on both sides rigorously attacked the eventual winner during the primaries but then changed their tune and endorsed them once they won the nomination? Look at Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris grilling Biden, then turning around and saying "I'm backing him!"

Classic Lefties? Look at all of the candidates that ruthlessly bagged Trump during the Republican contest then sang his praises as he came up against Clinton.

What?

You said "Horse trading your values or beliefs or pretending to be something isn't how I define democracy" but you won't say how you do define it?

I'm not trying to define democracy, I'm asking how your example of Canada's dog being wagged by its tail is less democratic than the American two-party presidential system.

Gotcha, that made more sense after you expanded on it, me and other libertarians have always been under assault from both sides so it's quite interesting to watch how both extremes seem to have gone to war now, but yeah we do have more in common with repubs despite the fact that they do a lot of fluff we don't agree with 🤷

:)

I get it. Libertarians are stuck between siding with socially liberal progressives who want want greater social freedoms for everyone but at the expense of bigger government and potentially higher taxes to pay for greater welfare, or siding with social conservatives who want to ban things like abortion, prostitution and gay marriage but are generally more open to smaller government if that means they can pay less tax towards govt funded welfare and donate more money personally to private charities, albeit those with a Christian agenda.

It's easier to safeguard against something you absolutely don't want (big government) at the expense of turning a blind eye to the restricting of a arguably non-essential "recognition" for an already marginalised minority (like gays not getting marriage).

I am not convinced that Trump runs. The convention is not until late August. If things haven't changed by then, I expect he decides not to run.

That's like saying you're going to rehydrate without having liquids, that man loves power, he won't step down and plus he has more support than 4 years ago, his policies are proving him correct, even the left has conceded in that regard.



Correct, I really don't give a flying F what people do in their bed rooms, I have gay friends and we respect each others personal choices, they want to get married? Have at it, you want to be a junky, it breaks my heart to see you go down that path, but have at it, by the same token the government has no right to take away my health insurance and force me to buy theirs, that's really fluffed up, especially when you penalize me for not doing so, you owe me thousands of dollars Mr Obama!

How do you quantify democracy?
I'm not asking how does one, I'm asking how do you?

I will vote yes for you if you vote yes for me is thirteen year olds at a spin the bottle party

One faction the liberals can not rule without the consent of another faction the ndp.

Pick one to rule with its platform and policy. If they agreed they'd be in the same party. The least voted for, the ndp, now get to rule what the liberals do and say lest they lose their support. The ndp runs Canada because trueowed needs them to stay in power.

Bull fluffing fluff.

I get to have my wedding at a mosque because we like the architecture but we are both Christian and "of white skin" I'm sorry but your prayers are canceled today because two Christians decided to love one another with open faces.

Let's see how that swings.

Well that's just the hypocrisy of the left with their anti religion platform, somewhere along the line they decided to support Muslims, I don't have anything against that except you exposed your hypocrisy, stay consistent.

You = they?

I ain't catholic nor does I enjoy the architecture of mosques. And neither will my wife.

Just when I thought our bromance was on the rocks and that our views were too different to remain in love. You turn it around and make me believe in us again. I don't hate Trump, but I LOVE THIS POST. If the rest of you assholes thought like this, I would never seriously consider being a crazy off grid living wilderness man that shoots at people that drive within a mile of my property.

things change

https://www.politico.com/...right-real-origins-107133

it shouldnt be a huge surprise that the real origins of protestant/evangelical opposition to abortion was as a smokescreen for racism relating to racial segration in schools

prior to 1979 that it was basically a catholic issue, thats not all that long ago


now its just one of a number of other rallying points used by groups more concerned about other things. wedge politics.

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty."