Dude, I was in UCN when RD took us down, so kindly leave your high horse in its stall. That was then, this is now - its as simple as that. The RD that shares a spamming forum with PDM is made up of a bunch of guys that I would gladly share a beer with. Its a different game, under different management and most of us have grown up and left the past in the past. You should try it, its cathartic.

If you don't like the way RD plays the game now, simple - buy jets and re-train them. If you are still holding a grudge against them for hurting your feelings 10 years ago, please FS yourself instead.

I guess banning all of RD from AT that one time when you went on a power trip and then losing your mod access shortly thereafter still weighs heavily upon you.

And RD running SoF out of Alliance those years ago apparently still weighs heavily upon you as well.

All wouldnt stand a chance Orky! ;)

On Adolf Hitler...

Christians have been trying to discredit Hitler's faith for decades, turning their eyes away from history books. From the earliest formation of the Nazi party he expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. He was baptized as Roman Catholic in Austria, attended a monastery school and was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church. He was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" and his goal was to become a priest. He was never excommunicated or condemned and the church had stated that he was "Avenging for God" in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus. Look it up!

Hitler was given veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany and forged a treaty whereas the National Socialist state was officially recognized by the Catholic Church. In a letter to the Nazi party, he wrote "…this treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism is hostile to religion is a lie."

He allied with Pope Pius in converting German society and made a deal with the church whereas the church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons, and in turn, Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This lead to Hitler enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home.

He was quoted as stating,


"The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today…Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church."

In fact, the Holocaust grew out of Hitler's Christian education due mainly to Jews having an inferior status in Christian Austria and Germany. The Christians there blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus and the hatred that Hitler fostered against Jewish people began from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany. It is well known that Martin Luther held a livid hatred for Jews and their religion. Luther wrote a book titled "On the Jews and their Lies" which set the standard for Jewish hatred all the way up to World War 2. Hitler, of course, expressed a great admiration for Luther.

The Nazis began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught. They included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961. Nazi soldiers wore religious symbols and placed religious sayings on military gear. The official army belt buckle read "God With Us". They got sprinkled with holy water and listened to Catholic sermons before going out on maneuvers. The Nazis had a secret service called the "SS Reich" that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens and if anyone was suspected of heresy they would be prosecuted.

Here are a few quotes from Hitler:

"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922


"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf


"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Pius came close to revealing his sympathy for those “who without fault…sometimes only because of race or nationality, have been consigned to death or to a slow decline.” He refused to say more, fearing that public papal denunciations might provoke the Hitler regime to brutalize further those subject to Nazi terror—as it had when Dutch bishops publicly protested earlier in the year—while jeopardizing the future of the church.

Albert Speer quotes Hitler stating, "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

Had enough of Hitler? OK, let's move on to Stalin:

Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and I remain curious as to why his Christianity is shoved aside in all these arguments. Yes, there is no way to get around the fact that in his early career, Stalin made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion, but that had nothing to do with atheism. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country.

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

So, while Stalin was no peach, he was not exactly what you would call a died-in-the-wool atheist. He was more a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.

What about Pol Pot? (As mentioned before, and no, I am not wrong, YOU are)

Truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination. Now, let's take a head count of atheists who are against education, science and medicine. Thought so... Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia's communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

Prince Norodom Sihanouk said, "Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler."

So, while Pol Pot was definitely not a Christian, he was also definitely not an Atheist.

Before 1975 the Khmer Rouge tolerated the activities of the community of Buddhist monks, or sangha, in the liberated areas in order to win popular support. This changed abruptly after the fall of Phnom Penh. The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks, regarded by the regime as social parasites, were defrocked and forced into labor brigades. Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails. Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying or expressing religious sentiments in other ways were often killed.

By the way, I didnt write up all that myself, I have copied it from this website which made it easier for me. I shouldnt take credit for it which would seem dishonest (not that it makes it any less true of course!). :-)
--

Continue reading on Examiner.com Refuting The Myth That Hitler, Stalin And Pol Pot Were Atheists - National atheism | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/...re-atheists#ixzz1sL3kO8kb

Those numbers seem way off, at least in respect to what could be attributed to atheism in any way. Are you suggesting that any and all deaths in an atheist regime can be attributed atheism?

I find it really hilarious that religious people often try to equate Communism to Atheism, that comparison is simply ludicrous.

Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism — a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.

But while the original myth has been refuted, it is interesting to look and see if perhaps the Christians who made it have gotten things backwards. Perhaps it is Christianity which is inherently communistic? After all, there is nothing in the gospels which even so much as suggests a divine preference for capitalism. On the contrary, quite a bit of what Jesus said directly supports many of the emotional foundations of socialism and even communism. He specifically said that that people should give all they could to the poor and that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Orkin, that is really quite incorrect. And Atheism is most definitely not "on par" with anything even remotely like the damage relgion has caused.

Lets deal with a few of your issues:

1. Abortion, well actually we have been over this argument quite a lot already. I dont agree with you in any parts of it and abortions are done by xtians as well as non-xtians (as well as all other religious people) so you most definitely can not ascribe abortions to be something damaging that Atheists have imposed on you. But we can always keep arguing this if you want.

2. Cambodia / Pol Pot.
He was truly a monster, having killed some twenty-five percent of the entire population of Cambodia. Pol Pot targeted not just different religions, but education, science and medicine in his quest for total domination. Now, let's take a head count of atheists who are against education, science and medicine. Thought so...
Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge were composed of Buddhists and Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. He studied at a Buddhist monastery and then at a Catholic school for 8 years. Cambodia's communism was influenced by Theravada Buddhism.

The Khmer Rouge also classified people by religion and ethnic group. They banned all religion and dispersed minority groups, forbidding them to speak their languages or to practice their customs. They especially targeted Buddhist monks, Muslims, Christians, Western-educated intellectuals, educated people in general,

Likewise religious people like to try and discredit Atheists by bringing up China, Nazi Germany and the old USSR. All of them equally faulty.

Adolph hitler was a Catholic and even had close relations with Pope Pius. Stalin was raised to be a Catholic priest. They were all awful people and did some awful things but you can not ascribe any of it to Atheism, doing is is totally incorrect.

Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. His government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, anti-religious propaganda, the antireligious work of public institutions (Society of the Godless), discriminatory laws, and a terror campaign against religious believers. By the late 1930s it had become dangerous to be publicly associated with religion

Now lets compare some numbers shall we:

Add up the deaths that were attributed to Hitler, Stalin and Pot. Then round up for good measure. You can safely say that the number is staggering. Probably upwards of fifteen million.

Lets compare to:
•Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49 Not in modern times
•Algeria, 1992-
•Baha'is, 1848-54
•Bosnia, 1992-95
•Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
•Christian Romans, 30-313 CE Not in modern times
•Croatia, 1991-92
•English Civil War, 1642-46 Not in modern times
•Holocaust, 1938-45
•Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598 Not in modern times
•India, 1992-2002
•India: Suttee & Thugs
•Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
•Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
•Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
•Jews, 1348 Not in modern times
•Jonestown, 1978
•Lebanon 1860 / 1975-92
•Molucca Is., 1999-
•Mongolia, 1937-39
•Northern Ireland, 1974-98
•Russian pogroms 1905-06 / 1917-22
•St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572 Not in modern times
•Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE Not in modern times
•Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38 Not in modern times
•Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
•Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834 Not in modern times
•Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
•Thirty Years War, 1618-48 Not in modern times
•Tudor England
•Vietnam, 1800s
•Witch Hunts, 1400-1800 Not in modern times
•Xhosa, 1857
•Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE Not in modern times
•Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
•Al Qaeda, 1993-
•Crusades, 1095-1291 Not in modern times
•Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609 Not in modern times
•Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

If you add up all of the lives that were lost in the name of one religion or another, you come up with a staggering figure that is in excess of eight-hundred-million. That's eight-hundred-million. An eight, followed by eight zeros. So, even if the believers who are uneducated enough to think that Hitler, Stalin and Pot were psychotic mass murderers because they thought these men were atheists, it is horrifically clear that religious murder wins out.

Oh and ORKIN:

Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester (88% of them in fact!), when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization (IVF) are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

Again, your arguments doesnt float. Care to come up with some other ones?

But you are mistaken how Scientific theory works, it simply states what the best possible explanation is that we have currently. Some scentific theories are very very well proven such as Evolution.

Whereas some are less so, perhaps abiogenesis is one such, I honestly dont know enough about it to be able to judge it at the moment. However from a brief google around it doesnt sound too shabby on proof of the theory there either.

However the beuty with Science is that you keep working at it, if someone comes up with a new theory tomorrow that completely wrecks the current theory of abiogenesis then so be it, the science books will be re-written, we will need to teach our children the current best theory we have based on the proof that are there.

This way we keep teaching our children the best of what we know all the time. This way we actually advance our own civilization and our own lives.

It by far surpasses the very stale and backwards striving religions which really tries to stop progress and stop us moving forward. I can see absolutely zero merit to religion in comparison to science.

Orkin: I think your main problem is this "...building blocks of life magically assembled themselves...".

You make it sound like it is a magic trick (which incidentally is what religion does and NOT science). Evolution works over a very very long time period (and yes, the earth is faaaar older than some 6000ish years!) little by little and in the end you get a human or a plant or whatever else.

Just that you have found yourself unable to accept abiogenesis (which is the first step to overcome before the more obvious parts of evolving life steps in) is just a bit weird. There are experiments made and advances happening even with abiogenesis, its as any other science something that takes a while to fully prove and to flesh out the theory. But at least the scientific theory is there and proof and experiments are being made. I am sure you can find plenty on google if you hvae a look. And as this is science you can be sure that people will keep working on it to try and prove it better and eventually they might even be able to show you exactly how it happened.

Just because everything isnt explained and proven in detail you cant MAGICALLY ASSUME that then "god-did-it".

Prove it.








exactly

Glad to hear that the Methodist priest has seen some sense and got himself away from his midieval way of thinking and joined the sensible people that doesnt think there is a magic man in the sky that pulls all our strings.

Seriously I hope and think that more people will manage to slip the noose of religion!

So are you of the belief that preacher's have some connection to God that the average person does not possess? Like I certainly understand why Catholics would be unhappy to find out if their holy figures were atheists.