Originally
posted by
SAM_DANGER:
I'm sure I'll get skewered for saying this, but Cerberus actually has a very good, valid point in his first post in this thread.
There is some critical information missing in the original post here: What was the bible verse(s) cited?
If it was the first commandment, then I'd say you have a legitimate gripe. But if its something like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", then I wonder why you have a problem with it. If the quote is not something specifically religious, does the fact that it comes from The Bible immediately disqualify it as an acceptable motto for a public official?
Hi Sam!
This isn't meant as a skewer, at all. I mean no malice, just trying to illuminate another POV.
What we know as the golden rule did not "come from" the bible, it's a guiding principle that has arisen across many cultures over many centuries.
Centuries before any trace of abrahamic faith in China, Confucius is attributed with the similar "What you do not wish upon yourself, extend not to others".
It's no different with the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". No one needs an ancient text to come to the realization that it is a mutually beneficial moral principle. Not only for yourself, but for your offspring. It helps to guarantee your reproductive success, a strong genetic motivator in us all.
I don't mind any and all good moral principles appearing in the bible. What I do mind, however, is any religion claiming ownership of those principles. In doing so, the implication is that only due to your specific religion do we have anything resembling a civil society, and only by taking your religious text as my own can I have a chance at being a member of your civil society.
I find that to be quite insulting to human intellect. We can figure this
fluff out for ourselves w/out wading through all the BS written by ancient, relatively ignorant peoples.
Sam, you cherry picked too, deciding to ignore the first amendment in your post. I'll wager you would have even more visceral disagreements with some of the other laws in the bible, as would Cerberus and any other sane human being.
***NEXT DAY EDIT: That^ was meant to read: "..deciding to ignore the first commandment.."***
sorry 'bout that! /edit
If there are in fact parts of the bible you do not agree with, are you not disturbed by their presence there?
There's a reason that you don't want every one of the ten commandments and other laws in the bible to be the law of the land, or even held as cultural norms. You understand their imperfections and hypocrisies and dangers to a global civilized society, and you have a well functioning human mind that allows you to make those distinctions between the good and the inane in those ancient texts. You choose what you like, and dislike, in the bible. You make moral judgements about different parts of the bible, from a source outside the bible.
If you were a teacher or a role model to my children and discussed moral principles with them, I would want them presented in a secular manner. And if you were to bring up religion with them I would insist it be in the context of the religions of the world, without bias toward one religion or another and without hijacking basic human intellect, psychology, empathy and morality as a construct of your particular faith.
So in the context of religious tracts or quotes in schools, it's a slippery slope that I think should be avoided. It's much better to explore the reasons for the validity of those moral principles so that our children are better able to think for themselves and develop the critical thinking skills needed to recognize bull
fluff should a dangerous 'bible' or 'quran' literalist/zealot try to fill their heads with destructive nonsense.
The last thing I would ever want to hear from my children is "cuz my teacher says god says so" and if you truly want to live in the land of the free instead of an implied theocracy then when I send my children to a public school you must respect the freedom of my choice for my children, that being freedom of religion, and freedom from religion.
cuz, Matthew 6:6
