So my point is validated...you don't remember and there's obviously others who talk about bots, and yet you were headstrong in assaulting me with your e-thuggery without clear conscience. Am I still the bad guy here?

Like I said, check the name, Scott. And I'm not the only one who brought up bot performance in an adult way simply to discuss the potential of making things Better. This community clearly doesn't want that though.

I still think you're lying, Scott.

Preferred Stock was me, yes. I did post concerns on the forums about the bot functions, and I wasn't alone in it, but I don't see myself giving in-game messages on it. What was your country name that I had interaction with? Simply providing feedback on the forum merely to discuss things in a calm, intelligent way means I'm fluffing? What's the point of the forums then? To not talk about anything? Are the bots not improvable? Earth Empires! Where forum posting is not welcome! Way to attract new people guys.

It's obvious you've lost, Scott. Don't forget to feed off your icecream too before it melts.

@KingMe that's all I've been trying to say...the net-game has a favored path...try sharing or even discussing that with these jackals and they want to rip your throat out. I'm sure though that they've made many more friends on here than enemies...

You're a real good moderator, btw.

/sarcasm

If I was going to make a claim like you I'd look in history to provide a name as I'd recall such an interaction. You claim you remember this, but don't remember that, you're so unreliable. The internet tough guy thing isn't really working for you, Scottie

You don't remember, and yet you remember me? That makes a lot of sense, Scott. So lying isn't, but being an a-hole is? I still say both. You'll have to keep trying for rage though, I'm not really feelin it :\

It wasn't back then. Even now I've only brought up the point that grabbing bots is better for networth than grabbing live players. It was merely a point, whether they like it or not. It is entertaining on how many beasts have been unleashed just by discussing a game dynamic.

I'm glad your busy life has made such time available to entertain me. Again I ask, what country? I don't recall messaging such things in-game, and I don't message in-game often, so I think you're lying.

Yes, all valid. The goofy naming is probably the most obvious, but sometimes mine are goofy too, so make sure you check news and spy lol

Few things...if you're newb you can generally get an idea by checking news and seeing them be farmed without retalling(most humans would go ape with this kind of abuse).

Also, bots are programmed to be around 240 CS...you'll start to recognize this if you look for it. It may be a few CS's under if they've been hit.

Bots have a high Turns Used because they run frequently on express. Bots don't sit on 300 turns...that's someone playing lazy, playing a late start, or waiting for some doofus to landgrab them for low land so they can retal later for more

Bots don't get tech outside of business/residential/military/their strat tech. So if you see things like weapons, warfare, etc. it's a clue they're not a bot.

What bias? And what country? That doesn't sound like a message I'd send. Are you sure you're not labeling me as someone else? And what holier than anyone bullfluff? Do you have a problem with the way I communicate? It makes sense why you went quiet....you had to think up a stunning labia insult. Well done.

Got it, thanks for sharing and not being Celphi-sh with that bit of public server knowledge.

I never said my preference....I simply said with the 2 options we have given the current environment, one option is better for netting than the other. Prove me wrong based on that and leave the personal insults for Scott and Primeval.

I don't understand how asking who you are is rage?

I've been Explaining mechanics. You're the one who obviously didn't understand that trading is mathematically not beneficial in most cases, and you mention mechanics?

Yea, it's really getting burned when you win, right?

Nice use of apathetic..if it were true you wouldn't bother posting, now would you? And I wasn't quick to insult, you were rude. Funny how you try to bait me with mentions of insults or fits when I'm merely discussing the concept of grabbing and its benefits and drawbacks. If you're not able to discuss things abstractly, that's your folly. Maybe you Should start reading again....

Where did all this rage come from, Trump? Whoever said anything about fear? I simply said it's stupid to reduce your own potential networth by attacking a good live player who retals when there's better opportunity elsewhere. This is a fact and has nothing to do with me. Even with me not playing it's still true.

We already discussed back in the day it was the only choice, but there's clearly a better one now for netting. That's simply just true. Has nothing to do with me playing with sand.

Where did those noobs you bottom fed on go? Right, they quit. How much land did you get? Yea, not much. Are there many live players to bottom feed now? No...I'm not seeing any valid point from you, Trump.

'Even' in the sense of land no gain/loss of land after attacks, but surely you knew that, or else you should have kept reading to the obviously applicable 'stupid' part for you. If you're going to be an idiot or a jerk don't even bother posting. Let's hope you don't start reading again.

Hmm..interesting...I was under the impression that you could not get a 6 hour bonus unless you missed the 4 hour bonus. Apparently they're separate, good to know. I'm used to the old days where if you logged in after 12 hours but before 18 you'd only get 3 bonus turns and would miss the other 3 for 18 :)

I find your typing to be classic. And since when have you known to even interact with me? I don't even know a "Scott"

It's a big matter, actually. Ending up even is not only stupid, but costly. You lost military for 2 hits, uselessly. You had to pay to rebuild land all over again(can be $100 mil or more depending on the hit), uselessly. The land lost was not there to produce for turns played before getting it back and up. And having to retain what you already had prevents further growth.

I've gone through the calcs, land trading results in less net most of the time. Personally I've calculated a loss of millions for overall net due to factors above. Going through all that negative cost to end up with a few hundred acres is bad for Both countries. So forget that it's annoying, when it's bad for everyone why do it!?

If you can end up with 1-2k profit and it's beneficial for you mathematically for you without getting raged on for a top feed, more power to you. However...I'd still argue you'd be better off taking 1-2k from bots and not being hunted for best results and dealing with the hit and losses.

At the end of the set if you see yourself in 20th, look up. You just lost to 'live' people, and I'm saying someone's net would be higher without such reckless practices

No it's not impossible, I said that. I just said it's too easy to retal in this server and so Most of the time a simple land exchange is hurtful for both countries. I can't help but wonder...If I attack a real player and it makes me worse off, why would I do it?? I'd scratch 'possible' for 'highly likely/too easy'

There are many aspects to this game. The netting part is complex as well, and many have fun battling for that. Maybe you're the kinda kid who likes playing rock 'em sock 'em robots where you just mash buttons and beat the sheet out of your opponent, whereas I prefer a mental battle, like chess.

0.2 mins ago
You have been granted 3 bonus turns!

0.2 mins ago
You were given a daily bonus of 20 extra acres.

2.1 hours ago
You have been granted 3 bonus turns!


That 2 hour spread there makes me question that, Marshal. I noticed it's not consistent though...for example I've noticed larger spreads. I'm not sure if there's an expected amount of bonus turns per set and the server tries to somewhat help you get there if you fall behind or what.

Few things...if you're newb you can generally get an idea by checking news and seeing them be farmed without retalling(most humans would go ape with this kind of abuse).

Also, bots are programmed to be around 240 CS...you'll start to recognize this if you look for it. It may be a few CS's under if they've been hit.

Bots have a high Turns Used because they run frequently on express. Bots don't sit on 300 turns...that's someone playing lazy, playing a late start, or waiting for some doofus to landgrab them for low land so they can retal later for more(ol' bait trick, and trump loves to fish :D)

Bots don't get tech outside of business/residential/military/their strat tech. So if you see things like weapons, warfare, etc. it's a clue they're not a bot.

Yea? How often does it work for you? It doesn't usually, that's why you hit bots too. Express is too easy to retal, it's not about being a 'coward' lol. It's about understanding the server. It's stupid to hit someone for 1k land just to turn around have them take 2k 2 days later. If you want to be 'manly' and get retaled for big losses, then you go ahead and be 'manly'. Trump probably also thinks it's unmanly to use a car jack to replace a flat. Either use your head to prop up your car or start walkin', woman.

Well this isn't just a war game. If you think that I think you're missing a whole more to this game. It's much more dynamic than just warring. A big part of the game I think is to obtain the highest net. That challenge in itself is fun. There are so many aspects to this game that contribute to networth and engaging other EE'ers in a mental battle to see who can obtain the highest net is also fun. Generally people who suck at this part of the game enjoy warring instead.

Also, back in the day there weren't bots and there wasn't an express server. As you said there were also more people, so more targets. In today's game in EXPRESS specifically, retals are too easy. Blow through 300 turns in a day and concentrate on all jets and weapons, not hard.

A couple reasons people have quit are because of pain in the ass suiciders/malicious people who only destroy people's countries for no reason(warring as you put it), or because they just get overfarmed(especially as newbies).

I took this, "Gee I wonder how anyone ever did it without bots! But somehow they did!!" as an excuse for such actions. Maybe you were just pulling that out of your ass for a general comment. If so, I apologize.

I mean, Trump, if for some reason you get wood seeing ##### has invaded your lands!, then by all means go for it. That's fun, right?

You miss the point entirely...the old world was a world without bots and you had no choice. Now that you do have a choice, it's much smarter and more beneficial for your country to go for unretalable land than to just lose it all in a matter of hours..

Then they will burn with it

Well, I can understand this reasoning more for other servers...but with express it's simply just too easy to retal.

Do you really enjoy hitting someone for 2k land just to have it retalled away? I don't understand that point or how that's fun exactly.

Let's make EE Express fun again

There are more than enough bots that also play turns frequently to hit them and grow quite well. Hitting a human player for 2-3k in 1 grab 'seems' good, but when they retal you and take most, all, or even more than all of it back, what did you really gain? You could hit 4-5 bots for the same land and have no threat of retal....All the wasted military, the expense in building, and the opportunity cost that you Would have been able to keep all of that land with 0 threat of retal if you just thought about this beforehand and weren't noob...

The main thing you end up doing is inhibiting your and your attackee's own networths by having to spend money to rebuild the same land all over again and inhibiting your own growths.

Don't experts post those nets with other strats too? If a few have, then anyone can, if they were better.

40m is a milestone in itself. You can't blame that all on a type of government when other types get there as well. From what I can tell, those C countries getting those types of networths are generally, consistently the same group of people who know what they're doing...this is why you still see C's finalizing low networths as well, regardless of market price. If C was so overstacked why do we see low finishes for many other C's? Also, just because markets are set well for techers doesn't mean those who consistently tech necessarily have the 'skill' to break 50m or 60m, even though it was made possible. As for cashers, yes expensive tech has an impact on them too, but when units are half-price, that more than makes up for. I'd hope players spend more $ on military than they do on tech in any given set.

Did the market for C's change in round 337 I presume? Since then...

348 1 Qfwfq (#105) 15,367 $42,000,000 DG
346 1 GLHF (#71) 11,538 $41,492,117 TG
346 2 EyE m SeKsI (#11) Game profile 18,089 $40,870,508 HG
345 1 Preferred Stock (#7) 29,745 $41,749,146 CG
344 1 MakeMyDay (#63) 19,622 $47,602,896 HG
344 2 Preferred Stock (#10) 32,534 $44,552,983 CG
343 1 Cream of the Crop (#15) 35,822 $43,798,443 CG

Again, all those C's are the Same guy, so you can't assume it's All related to government. There are also many, many other factors that goes into each set that decides final net that's not scene in a blanket 40m cherry pick observation. Look at the rest of the top 10s for those other sets and look at how many C's there are and where they stand. I see too much of a spread to simply assume C is too strong just because a handful are good at it.

Jets at $59 and Turrets $80 right now :)

The fact that a very skilled player at C/I 'CAN' win(or finish well) does not negate the fact that recent server markets have highly favored techers/cashers. What KingMe is saying is that a lot less skilled players at techer, or even other strats, are ending with higher net averages because of the markets(if you just look at final net you can't necessarily tell the skill-gap). This is why you see so few C's in top 10 or even 20 lately. The fact that you have an outlier here or there doesn't change that fact.

The reason why markets are so skewed is because the bots are programmed to continually buy ridiculous amounts of tech, thus bumping up the prices(as they're not really programmed too well to sniff out a good deal or know when it's beneficial to put that money somewhere else). Also, the reason why unit prices are so low is because the bot indies are undercutting the market and they use turns every, what, few hours or so? So they continually post cheap units because they're not trying to win and are playing by bugged code. No C/I would normally post anything in the 70s or 80s because it's just too cheap and such a big advantage for your competition.

IF you want to claim that for some reason you feel C/I was stacked all these years, well you could show the math and we could discuss it like gentlemen. And also you could tell me why every set has not been won by C/I before the changes, or even the majority? Was someone playing C and happened to be doing well with it so everything was just changed for 1 guy? What if he was just good and bunch of other people sucked? That's not a good reason to change it....if we saw 8 of top 10 all C/I at the end consistently we could suspect it...but I don't think we see a flood of C's in top 10 consistently? What about all the other C's lower than that? How did they do so bad if it was so rigged? And if any part of this sounds hostile, it's not meant to be. Just some honest thoughts.

Enterprise/Residential Zones and Business/Residential tech are essential keys.

Probably casher. It's much easier to go through a whole bunch of turns not being dependent on market sales. I'd also suggest being a Republic over a Democracy for a newb.

Actually it's the last 6 hours of the game. I believe this was implemented because people like you who weren't going to win would go off FUBARing people trying to drag them down, either to make yourself finish 'better', or simply to stop someone else from finishing 'great' out of envy(this is the real problem). Also, at that stage of the set people go into finish/jump-mode and so they can become relatively weak or loaded with resources and so a form of protection was offered. I think more people than not like this because there are already enough ways for the jackals to ruin sets and we know if they could, they would. If you're looking to attack at the stage of the game you probably don't know what you're doing net-wise and aren't going to win anyway because attacking at that stage isn't all too beneficial...one point is some people you'd piss off and they'd just war you in the final hour, another point is if you gained $60mil, but lost like 400k jets, that'd only basically replace your losses, so what did you gain? Some land? You'd spend money on building land in the last few hours and also drop tech%? That's a waste as your new land wouldn't out-produce what you spent in most cases, and you'd have higher net putting that money to MUs at that time.

Note: If a target has hit YOU at least once in the set then they're not protected by GDI in the final 6 hours from YOU.

Yep, land trades are generally a drag on both players and yet people insist on doing them.

The ghost acres can be seen as a plus, but spending all that money on buildings just to lose them, plus military for 2 hits and any resources on hand...if you only end up netting 700 acres or whatever it's not worth it...especially when you think you could have gained more than that just hitting bots who won't retal...just a thought

Jealousy was never in question.

You can't prove anyone hit you from that, it was only on like 2 mins. The news didn't show all too much either.

I knocked you from 16mil down to 11-12 mil just in the time I used some of my turns in 1 wave. I retaled you and sent many spies at you and some missiles as a part of it. You lost like 5mil jets from just me. What I did alone kept you from top 10 due to the millions lost, if you even had a chance at getting there.

I've never found pricks to be particularly effective at netting. You can't finish a set without getting smacked. Is that part of your top 10 strategy? Has it worked for you lately? You can self-DR to protect the land, but it doesn't protect your networth. You had 50k land with over 28k unassigned, and hardly any CS. You never intended to Use the land for building, only to be a pest to others; again this is my point. At least admit it like you did on IzMla