The last couple days of every set, people that were at 10m NM jump by 7-10m nw a day.

How? Where does it come from??

a stock pile of cash and bushels the bushels are hidden on the market. The only way to finish big is to keep expenses down and jump at the end.

Hidden on the market?

forsale but above what anyone will buy It for. like bushels for sale at 500$

I buy bushels upto 999 >.>

*sells extra bushels at 998*

Okay, so you hide 7 million dollars worth of bushels on the market? I still don't get it. The production has to come from somewhere, and it's not like these people hover at 2-3m NW all set and then jump because they've been stockpiling.

They stockpile all set, destock, and then buy a bunch of fluff. This keeps expenses low all set so they can stock more and buy more.

have you played a set where cash management to stay under $2b cash on hand (so as to avoid the cost of corruption) was your biggest worry? if not, then you need to up your game on the productive side ... once you have achieved this level of play, the mechanisms and necessity of those big end of set jumps becomes more obvious ...

"when you can take the stone from my hand ..."

(-¿-)

I'm always C/I. I go full indi on turrets and tanks, with 30% set aside for spies untilni reach around 1m. I buy ind tech and bushels and by the end of each set I'm at around 16.5m NW and have ~15m turrets, and consistently finish in spot 8-12. I never have more than 900m cash on hand.

It doesn't seem like there are large swings in bushel prices, so how would you continue growing your country if you are blowing your wad on bushels? And how do you make money when they really don't sell for that much more toward the end of the set?

Also, I don't LG. All exploration to around 14/15k acres.

This is like my 10th set in a row like this and it's getting boring, trying to figure out how to make it more interesting.

We are talking about buying billions of dollars worth of bushels. Then selling them at the end for a loss but still billions

In order to buy billions worth of bushels you must have billions of dollars. I don't get where it comes from.

If it getting boring switch it up and play a farmer or casher, try different governments and strategies.

-- I do not play a commie indy, so cannot really comment on how you would stockpile with such a country, However if I were to guess I would say selling most of your production should allow you to stockpile, and keep expenses a little lower. Most likely you would need to logon 2-4 time a day to put your production on the market.

it is very easy in tourney to run a small techer country

you can generate 2-3k tpt and make 6-9million income per turn for most of the set on 5k land

then you can switch to MBR for the last week

Normally you sell down as often as possible leaving enough cash on hand for the turns you have. Then buying bushels and stock them on the market. Calculating the end game for a ci can be pretty difficult.

don't commie indy :P

I've never played anything else. Guess I need to explore.

well I jumped from 9m to 17.6m in the last 15 minutes and I was only a 8k rep casher the entire set.

Which game are you talking about anyway? Most of the countries in all three servers are around $20 million net worth at the top. Not a lot of days they can do 7 million jump back to back.

I played C haven't played that small ever in my life but all was needed to get out that hell hole -_-

I meant the OP.

But I guess you must be Dark holocaust? But that isn't a republican casher though.

was from 8k acres until last 15 minutes of the set :P

You beat me. Thought I would be the thinnest this round!

But it says you are HG not RG

I was republic from turn 1 until last turn

Don't you lose net worth when you change?

There are several strats one can play in this server.

Land and tech is key for CI (and actually every other strategy too).. i've done it before.

You can finish 25 to 30m easily if you plan well.

Try this.
1. Do a tech start.
2. Gain land till 1200 to 1300 turns (get your tech up as well keeping it decent as its very crucial) .
(Exploring is alright , but its better to LG cuz of the ghost gains and BPT up for turns to build..)
3. So the last 10 days or so of the set.. you start stocking.. if you have achieved you land goal(land goal ? refer below explanation from h2o), then start earlier.
4. To avoid lost due to corruption when you exceed 2b.. you can buy up bushels using SO to minimize losses. There is also a calculation to do for this.. if the bushels prices are too high. If you are running an indy.. stocking and selling bushels will cost u to loose 10% + 10%.. so if you are buying at 45 and selling at 36.. thats an automatic 8/pc lost for each bushels u stock. so if its a 50m bushel stock.. you will loose 400m. Compare that vs corruption (turn by turn lost). its ideal to buy cheap and sell high.. but by the time you sell at the end.. everyone that is targeting a good finish will also be offloading their bushels.. waiting patiently wins.. but some undercut. So you need to work that out.

Anyway.. based on my maths.. taking up corruption is ok till 3+b cashed stock... compared to market volatility and losses.


h2o posted an interesting maths comparison before if you are looking for ideal land target.. i'll be quoting him.
------------------------
You have to calculate two things

A = Cost of Attack + Cost of Building + Cost of tech to maintain tech levels

B = Turns left in the game * production gained from the land you are going to grab

if B > A, continue to attack
if A > B, stop

For example, you're a farmer
You send 5m jets to get 500 acres
Loss of jets : 5m * 0.08 * $120 = $48m
Oil cost : 200k * 200 = $9m
Cost of building say : 500 * 50,000 = $25m
Cost of tech needed to maintain : approximately $20m
Total for A = $102m

500 acres will net you about 5.8k bushels at 215% agri tech
say there's about 800 turns left in the game
B = 800 * 5.8k * $41 average food price = $190m

so B is > A in this case, you should continue to grab.
-------------------------

Do the same with commie indy.. replacing the bushels with units u sell.

there is also a destock calculation.. i.e. if you intend to jump with your stock or cash in hand. But thats another chapter. :)

Cheers
SW
Enterprise NX01.

What you say is more accurate, but to make it a bit simpler you could also calculate:

A = Cost of Attack + Cost of Building
B = Turns left in the game * production gained from the land you are going to grab

Any landgrab is typically small compared the land the you already have, and does not dramatically decrease your tech level. This means that the gain per land of one grab is approximately linear. You would have to recalculate this per grab, and you also have to do a separate calculation whether or not to buy tech.

edit: A should also include costs of not cashing/teching..

Nice win I was in B, but finished well enough to make it back to A. See you there.

quite a few people change to theo for their destock after being a demo or rep or fasc all set. the cheaper private market prices make the switch more than worth it if you have calculated it right. you wont run too many turns as a theo. if any.

to do this you run all but 8 turns. the next 8 turns will generally be your last of the set so calculate it right.
-then you put all the tech you can on the market, and all the goods you can on the market. this includes cash onhand too if bushels are the right price. you lose a percentage of everything you have onhand during the switch, so hide everything you can on the market.
-then you switch to mono.
- then you recall ALL your goods.

your tech should be that where you can sell your stocked food on your PM for $35. if it isnt, calculate what you need to spend to get it there and if it is beneficial to try. you need to remember that it will lower your PM goods price a dollar or 2 as well.

-then you sell your stock on your PM for $34 or $35
-then you switch to theo.

SELL YOUR FOOD BEFORE SWITCHING TO THEO theo PM sell proces suck. you dont want to sell your stock for $26.

now your troop price is something like $103 and your $/NW is something around $225 instead of the $255 of a max tech demo.

obviously there are many different ways to do this, as reselling is introduced, but that is the jist of how i destock.

Thanks Ford, beest and wolf for all the info. And dustlesswalnut for the op. Great question and great answers. Really nice to see competitors sharing experience.

I should add that my way requires you to calculate how much money your PM can hold and when to destock.

I have destock ed on the last day with a crap war country, and I have started destocking with 12 days left in the set making 1.4 billion NW massive mains. It can be anywhere in between there, and longer if you plan on reselling. But for the sake of this post, we will assume.no reselling.

It has everything to do with how much land you have and how much money you can spend. I also use PM replenishment bonus on the longer servers. +20% at the end can turn 20k acres into 24k. Remember that you lose a percentage of.bonus points when you make your switch to destock though.

Your PM replenishment rate is as follows.
2.5 troops
2 jets
2 turrets
1 tank

Per acre, per turn. So you factor in your projected unit price with their replenishment rate based on how much land you have. You have to find the balance. It is also important to point out that there is decay on any units left on the PM upon login, with the tick of every turn. What this means is that when destocking, make sure you buy out your PM every login before a turn clicks over. Because if not it will ruin your calculations.

Another tip, along the same lines of that last point, is to log out for ~40 hours before you decide to destock. (The time is whatever it takes you to go from 0 turns onhand to the servers max.) This way you get to spend the turns while benefitting from the PM size of a 40 hour logout. It is a win win and needs to be factored into your destock. You won't be running many turns, if any, once you start let your destock so squeeze every one in you can.

I made this post at a bar from my phone from memory, so forgive me for any errors. Feel free to point them out.

Thats a nice strategy putting it on the market thx! That would help explain the problem with the dropping networht after switch. I guess I wouldn't want to hold cash either because cash can't be put on market, so is it better to spend all the money to buy stuff before switching? Switch, and then use food to buy cheap troops in private market.

I don't see why you want to switch to mono to sell on your privet market. don't all governments except theo see on the privet market the same? two government switches will cause a huge networth drop only switching from mono the first time causes no rebellion. or at least that used to be the rule.

cronie you buy bushels with your extra cash as you can put all bushels on the market.

But buying bushells has a significant loss though from all the transaction. The higher price to buy bushells + 6% commission. And when you sell it, its couple of dollars less.

Are you sure the loss of all the transactions involved in buying then selling food is less than the loss incurred from the corruption decay of the money?

Some servers are selling food at say 38 after commission. So you buy at $38. But when you sell in private market, it might be $32. Thats $6 per bushel. That could be hundreds or billions in cash worth. Will you miss out on billions of dollars due to decay?

for every 1000 bushels you have on hand you loose 1 bu per turn. in you have 100 million bushels that is 100,000 bushels lost PER TURN! or 100,000*38$ 3.8 million$ loss per turn. Do the math for one days turns over 218 million lost a day. If I didn't my math correctly .01% decay on cash over 2 billion on the same 3.8B would would be 180,000 a turn decay if my math was correct 1,800,000,000*.0001. But I got the decay equation form one of your other posts so you obviously understand decay.

for arguments sake you cept all cash and ran 10 days of turns you would have lost billions in decay where as if you bought 42$ bushels and sold at 38 a 4/bu loss 4*100,000,000 is only 4 hundred million lost not billions and if your spied or attacked all you loose is military tech money and land no where near as bad as being spied for income!

with money and 2000 tech points of military per acre I get 35$ bushels on private and when you switch from mono to theo you lose nothing as mono gets free gov switch.

switching in tourney is not a good idea.. market prices controls everything.

whats the total turns for the reset ? about 2000 turns i think.. i would suggest running simulations in the EA alpha servers. test out the strats there to see if switching is worthwhile against the lost of bushels/tech/army during the switch..

mind u.. this is a solo server.. u can get pwned if you have a target on ur back.

and do the maths.. if you wanna win or get into top 10.

but fords method is widely used by almost everyone that plays big league. currently jumps are happning in primary as you read this. looking at the land and stocking style.. this set we should see serp or h2o hit 130 to 140m finishes.


bro.. its only 1 time switch.. u loose only once. the next switch from monarchy after selling stuff to theo will incur no lost.

cherios.

Any switch from mono does not incur a penalty. You do not want to switch and get the penalty with your stock on hand

Any gvmt -> mono -> theo will only incur one penalty.

Your numbers are subjective. Stocking bushels is the easiest thing to do. I promise you. Even if you have to pay $50 per and sell at $35.

corruption is at 0.001% a turn of any $$ exceeding $2b.

for a casher, lets say at 15k acres with tech about 170ish.. u make about $10m.. u have 57 turns a day + 12 (for turns bonus).. about 70 a day. so u stand to make $700m daily. say i stock for 10 days which is $7b.. if you cash all the way.. u should have abt $5.93b.. so u loose abt $1b.

doin the maths with bushels
u stock with bushels averaging 43.. buying $5b .. about 110m in total bushels
u sell that back at public at 36 at the end.. so thats about 34.. so you should get $3.7b.. (it would be great to see anyone maxing out the military strat in tourney or express just for this.. ie. getting private up to $35/pc bushel)

so for stocking bushels based on above buying and selling .. u should have about 5.7b.. thats less 200m.. about 600k nw.

ur lost at stocking bushels is even greater than loosing to corruption for short term games like tourney and express. based on my simulations/calculations.. buying anything bushels above 40 is a complete waste.. u'd better be cashing out for cashers.

do the maths gents..

stocking is for primary, alliance and ffa.. not for express and tourney.

so for tourney and express with 1900 turns, running turns into corruption is another option. this is if the bushels are selling at 40 and above. i stock turns most of the times :)

mrford.. i love you man. i always wanted to run the numbers.. so since i was dead bored.. i did.. and i have my f'in thesis to write now.

I usually run a demo farmer anyways. Food price doesn't effect me much. If prices spike I will sell and stock back up when they drop again.

gentlemen, i appluad your willingness to discuss some "secrets" and do some real analysis

silentwolf, fwiw, in tourney, i routinely run my demo's mil tech up to produce a $36 pm bushel sell price, as a demo with 0% commission, this can enable me to use standng orders to keep a grip on the bushel market, taking in all the bushels sold at 36 or less, and recycling them at $37 plus. by undercuttng the bushel market, the other big bushel holders are starved of cash and take losses on their bushels. later, i can choose the timing to flood the game with cash by cashng out all the bushels. the profits can be substantial during this manipulative phase, but competitively, it is more about screwing up the destock timing of the other big bushel holders.

i do make a point to avoid corruption, but as you said, it is not such a big factor when you are hovering around $2b, my personal rule of thumb is to pay close attention when i see cash is going to exceed $2.5b and do something to pull it back down. again speakng as a demo, i will often just cycle bushels at the same price on the market to avoid corruption when taking turns, sometimes takng a deliberate $1/bushel loss to save the corruption and start the process of "breaking" the bushel market.

cheers!

u my friend are a rare breed. So i will need to run the numbers again for a demo.. but its market play.. thats the elites game ;).. and good finish and a great finish is separated by doing just that.

Does all your military have to arrive on the market? Or is simply placing it on the market good enough to save it during your government switch?

just place it there.. doesnt have to arrive in the market.

i do it sometimes to save on bushels.. but if the bushels loses is more than the lost of cashing..

bushel recycling it was fun I think that's how me and another player got primaries market over 50 for a short time. not coordinated but their just happened to be a lot of cash flowing thought my country at the time.