On a day-to-day basis, Jews terrorize much more often than Muslims do. They difference is that when Muslims do it, it gets mainstream exposure.

All you have to do is walk through the West Bank to see terrorism in action. The occasional tidbits you read about extremist settlers in the West Bank happens on a DAILY basis, but you only read about it once every few weeks or months.

My family has property in Palestine that has been demolished by settlers, and I've visited a family that almost had their house burned down by settlers (they poured gas under the door and lit it).

But saying that Jews are terrorists and generalizing is asinine and stupid as much as saying that Muslims are terrorists. Try not to generalize so much.

Something to put into your pipe...

A white athiest, a black catholic and a muslim extremest walk in to a bar...One of them is going to kill you.

Who would you keep your eyes on?

I heard that most muslims dont like what that site says as it only makes muslims look bad. They arent even sure it is really muslims with the site.

"braden
Member
Posts: 42 Apr 24th 2010, 11:50:50
personally like the one that start the wiki about it: "Terrorism is, in the most general sense, the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion."


if i uncover a secret of yours, and threaten to reveal it to the world or you pay me money, i have systematically used terror or fear exactly as a means of coercion.

i am now a terrorist? "

Nope. You are only someone that takes a discussion to a place that has no relation with what we are talking about here. :)

the black catholic for sure. you gotta ask, what did they burn him for, and why did they not finish the job?


eric... fighting hitler is terrorism, i have no idea any more, don't worry- but then, some would also argue i never had an idea to begin with :P

Braden, did you ever stop to think that for some Iraqis who have had entire families slaughtered, perhaps America is their version of Hitler?

If you actually see things from their point-of-view, the perspective changes quite a bit. But we're so used to our righteous way of living, the "our way is the only right way" philosophy, that it becomes extremely difficult to relate and humanize the "other".

agreed, TAN

I don't hate anybody, except for those that have nothing but a hatred for other people - for life itself - , we all see a lot of that on the news daily, its abhorrent.

============================================
[Rambo and Colonel Trautman stand alone facing an enemy army, Rambo 3]
Colonel Trautman: What do we do?
Rambo: Well, surrounding them's out of the question...

I know how to make Muslims not viewed as terrorist anymore...

just get Russia or Serbia to attack some Muslim country and overnight they will be called freedom fighters,

oh, i'm sorry, america takes the gold from your teeth, shaves off your hair, skins you, tells you you're going for a shower and then gases you to death?

if they think america is their own little version of hitler, those uneducated fluffs need a quick history lesson.

i say we let the jews do it. just a thought.

did i ever stop to think? nope, must have overlooked that one, sorry.

http://www2.macleans.ca/.../21/the-return-of-hitler/

Enough said.
braden wins.

I am not saying what is happening in Iraq is akin to the holocaust. I am saying that America foments anger against itself by perhaps inadvertently terrorizing other populations.

So you never stopped to think about it, eh? So only Jews are humans? The 13 year old Iraqi girl who was gang raped, shot in the head and had her home burnt down along with her family with it wasn't human, and that wouldn't cause any ill-will at all against America?

What about the Iraqis who had a dozen families decimated at a wedding because America dropped bombs on them because they thought they were terrorists?

What about the naked pyramids of prisoners of war (well, some of them at least) that were photographed in Abu Ghraib?

Oh wait. They're not Jews. Only Jews can be mistreated. Silly me. Why do the Iraqis hate our freedom and democracy?

Dibs Ludicrous

You are obviously anti-Islamic based on anecdotal evidence.

I am not going to show your deliverance ass any stats until you say if you will become antisemitic if I can prove this to you....

Why should I answer your question when you wont answer mine? Freaking americans always talking and never listening, always asking but never answering.

Anyways, I want to ask you this, what is the difference between the Lehi group and Hamas?



Branden, are you seriously unable to think beyond black and white?

"if war is terrorism, then soldiers must be terrorists."

In war some soldiers on each side will use terrorism. Show me a war where soliders havent.

"the united states marines in iraq and afghanistan are terrorists? Neil believes so."

Have you talked to soldiers that have been there? Do you know any? SOME SOLDIERS THERE COMMIT ACTS OF TERRORISM. This is a fact.

"The Canadians soliders, the peacekeepers, they are terrorists?"

Are you a freaking moron or just ignorant of Canadian history? What about the reports (never looked into) of Canadian soliders executing captured Germans on D-Day? What about the conduct of the Canadian airborne regiment in Somalia? What about the Canadian officer currently on trial for the battlefield execution of an injured Taliban?

"The Allies in WWII were terrorists, because they were no matter how righteous in their cause, still waging war. Terrorism stopped the nazi's? Well, terrorism stopped other terrorism in the fourties."

The Allies in WWII committed war crimes, its just that simple, learn some history and then come back here.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL FREAKING SOLDIERS ARE TERRORISTS. Im saying that you cant see the freaking forest for the trees.

Groups are composed of individuals. You want to have it both ways, you want to say when muslims do terrible things its because they are muslim but when others do it its the individuals. Are you really so blind you cant see that this is hypocritical?

you really want to talk about canada in wwii?
take a quick look how we treated prisoners of war- then the germans and the japanese. or royal canadian navy shipping all that aid to britain and the filthy communists? i suppose the soldiers drowing in the mid atlantic after being torpedeoed by the germans, they were terrorsist, right? Because somebody, today, shot an injured taliban soldiers in a desert somewhere?

terrorism, might as wlel let fly a plane into a building, right?

i guess only muslim people are humans, who cares about americans, canadians, or jews, right neil? they are all the devil, and the misunderstood coffee shop bombers are right, we are wrong.

i will go tell my minister i will follow the words of mooslim

that is a nice fluffing forrest. stupid fluffing trees

war crimes?

i thought we were discussing acts of terrorism, not war crimes?

there is a difference, right?

"This is a fact"

No, this is your opinion based on, what, abu grhaib? i guess they are terrorists. americans are terrorists because they fight wars, not all muslims are terrorsists because a few of them decide to terrorize... trees for the forrest, again?

The difference, Braden, is Neil and I understand that in war, terrorism DOES happen, even if on an either remote or unintentional scale.

But you argue that ALL Muslims are terrorists/extremists, or believe that the majority of terrorism is Muslim, whereas in reality that is just not true. It is simply your opinion not based in any fact at all. You believe what you see on TV or read in dramatic tabloids, but you don't actually do any research on it.

So I advise before continuing this discussion, please go do some research on the topic and then we can go back to talking.

I gotta go back a second. How in the hell was South Park offensive? I mean really to find that episode offensive is simply mind blowing. It is a satire created for the use of humor. I mean next you're going to tell me someone can't make a "your momma is so fat" joke because that's offensive too. Or that dead baby jokes are cruel. None of these things are offensive to any normal human being. That episode was a far from offensive as anything south park has ever done. Hell, it was clear they were holding back like crazy to make it overly polite.

As for war being terrorism. I think there are two elements that need to be looked at. First, is the declaration or war itself done to insight fear? I think there is no doubt that the US in Iraq was done in part for that purpose. Thus the war itself is an act of terrorism. WW2 and where countries were defending themselves clearly was done defensively. The US and Canada were joining into to battle a side they felt was in the wrong, mind you I suppose any declaration has some goal of scaring the other side, but I think that's a bit of a reach. Second, the acts of the individual can be a form of terrorism when the overall mission isn't. I'm not sure how you can deny this as being a very real part of any war. People that sign up to fight in a military are already a "special" set of individuals. Many of these people are going to be a bit well...nuts. This isn't to say the general population isn't full of this as well. Any group is going to have nut jobs and often those are the people we notice. The problem is when a group is seen as a group of outsiders we tend to assume "they're all like that." Thus we ignore that a group such as the KKK in the US is ultimately a christian terrorist group and just shun them as nuts. When we see similar things in what we perceive to be "different" cultures, we decide to associate the culture with these isolated incidents.

Now there a certainly questions that arise with certain cultures that we have to be able to openly discuss. Black people in the US are more likely to go to jail. Israel doesn't exactly have a history of responsible military use. Muslims seem to do the suicide bombing thing at an alarmingly high rate relative to other cultures. America likes to keep it's military in an awful lot of countries around the globe. The french tend to smell a lot worse than other first world countries. Religious people find ways to cry over nothing far too often. So on and so fourth. It seems silly to just say "well these are still just small parts of a larger population." There has to be a reason for these things and that is a topic that can and should be discussed. Sadly I'm not sure if the population at larger is really capable of such a mature discussion which is truly sad.

The second part of your post, I generally agree. The first part:

"How in the hell was South Park offensive?"

It is only offensive to Muslims. Yes, it really is offensive to me (I'm a Muslim). However, I don't mind being offended. I know it's satire so I just blow it off as trivial. However, it's the scum that take it to the next level (with violence) that is really disgusting, and from there we branched off onto the tangents.

Perhaps you are unaware of how it is offensive to Muslims, so I will explain. In Islam, characterizing the Prophet Muhammad is prohibited in all forms because it was feared that it could lead to idolatry or veneration of the Prophets (in fact, it is prohibited to make any representation of any of the recognized Prophets, which include Jesus, but many Muslims gloss over this fact). See what happened to the Virgin Mary and Catholicism? Islam is trying to avoid that sort of corruption in the religion. Also, the Prophet Muhammad, we believe, was the last Prophet and he was the one who revealed the Quran, so we hold him in a particularly esteemed position.

So yes, it is offensive. But these idiots who threaten violence can go to hell.

Hope that helps.

"It is only offensive to Muslims. Yes, it really is offensive to me (I'm a Muslim). However, I don't mind being offended. I know it's satire so I just blow it off as trivial. However, it's the scum that take it to the next level (with violence) that is really disgusting, and from there we branched off onto the tangents."

How...what part of that was offensive? You don't "blow off" a satire. The idea that something that simple was offensive is simply mind blowing. I mean really does someone calling you a name offend you too?

Your explanation fails to even remotely make an argument. This is what's wrong with the world today...

I am not making an argument. I am telling you why Muslims are offended. I am not trying to convince you. I am just telling you.

Some people get offended at topless beaches.

Some people get offended if you shake with your left hand instead of your right.

Some people get offended if you touch them.

Some people get offended if you insult them personally.

etc...

It's not for you to judge who should get offended by what as per your pleasure. It is for you to be understanding. No one is asking you to convert, but you should at least be sensitive to other people's feelings on things.

Seriously why dont you read what people write and not put words into peoples mouths.

I dont think that the actions of individuals should reflect on an entire massive group of diverse people. Tan mentioned many of the conflicts involving muslims and you were too ignorant to respond to any of them and just gave some fox news rant.

Anyone who commits an act of terror is a terrorist, it doesnt matter what religion or race they are from.

You are the bigot. I and TAN are well aware that there are muslim terrorists and I dislike them (Im not going to speak for TAN but I would assume). I dislike them just as I dislike ANYONE who committed or commits war crimes.

The thing that makes YOU an ignorant bigot is when the Sabra and Shatila massacre happens you dont say 'damn christians' or the Gush Emunim Underground murders someone you dont say 'freaking jews' or when Canadian troops execute people 'terribloe Canadians' or when Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale storms the golden temples you dont say 'freaking turban heads' or when the Indian government and soldiers commit war crimes in Kashmir you dont say 'stupid Hindus'.

When a muslim does something you somehow think this reflects on ALL muslims. You dont even have the intellect to ask WHY they do this.

The individuals involved in abu grhaib were terrorists. Just as were 12th SS hitler youth who executed Canadian POWs and any Canadian solider who executes POWs.

I've made it a point of expressing my feelings towards terrorism in general in just about every post, so I won't repeat myself.

I only pray that it won't get glossed over and ignored like everything else I've written. :P

Tan, I'm telling you those are unacceptable reasons to get offended. Context here is a big deal. Yeah if you're in a formal setting rules change. This is a satire and thus the context is such that getting offended is irrational. Now mind you I understand that you people are naturally irrational, but I'm simply telling you that it is not acceptable. That is all.

Thanks hoop for pointing out that I am not you, and you are not me. Thanks for also pointing out that anyone who does not think like you or share your beliefs is irrational.

"We have to have a deep, patient compassion for the fears of men and irrational mania of those who hate or condemn us." -thomas merton

fluff you're dumb

i'm arguing semantics, the meaning of words. not religoin. i could care less. if the muslims freed europe from hitler and not the allies, the muslims STILL wouldn't have been commiting acts of terrorism in their effort to do so.

the muslim terrorists who fly planes into buildings are terrorsist.

i am so fluffing racist.

(unless you were calling dibs the racist, he totally is, he told me)

i will make my point one last time, and then give you all a breathe of fresh air by leaving you alone :P

what happened to russia in world war two was devestating. individual acts of soldiers throwing grenades and blowing up pillboxes, yes, fortifications in stalingrad, peoples houses, yes. tanks exploding coffeshops i'm sure, artillery and carpet bombing. no doubt, devestating and brutal and nobody would want to witness it, or have it happen to their home.

there is still the difference bewteen those acts of brutality done in war, and flying a plane into a building. whether jews do it, muslims do it, or christians do it. the okc federal building was *AS MUCH TERRORISM* as anything al qaudea has ever done.

him and his fertilizer is not akin to canadian soldiers storming the beaches of normandy. war crimes happen, soldiers commit terrible acts while at war. they do not drive a truck into a basement parking garage and walk away. or a night club, or a plane into a building. or the assasination of a civil rights leader would be closer to terrorism than carpet bombing a city.

even when both acts lead to death, destruction and terror

I am wrong, and I am a terrible person for being so, so wrong.

You're more than welcome to have a different opinion than me. However you're the guy sitting in the splash zone at sea world complaining he got wet. The guy watching porn who's upset he saw a naked lady. The suicide bomber who is upset he died because he blew himself up...

The show wasn't done in a mean spirited manor...thus you or anyone taking offense is irrational. Especially when done the way they did this one...

Just for fun go lookup the following:
Hama

Taking offense is subjective anyways, so belittling others for what they take offense at is rather petty. To you your beliefs, and to me mine.

Wow, talk about a few people hijacking a thread. TERRORISTS!

War is not terrorism. Was is an official thing, to gain something, be it freedom, land, money, etc. Terrorism gains nothing but fear and intimidation.

And furthermore, I think the way we live nowadays makes us susceptible to things like terrorism. We have a lot of time to just sit around worrying, and we don't want to lose the progress we've made thus far. I'd say taking someone's cell phone away could be called terrorism, most people would fear for their lives without one. :P

Tan and Neil, please leave and go live in Afghanistan or somewhere in the middle east. sit on your teams side of the bleachers.

i said irrational...

"War is not terrorism."

Why not? Seems pretty obvious terrorism occurs during war. But if a military does it that is okay? Is what the 12 SS did to canadian soliders during the battle of normandy or what the Japanese did to canadian pows not terrorism? As a canadian I am very offended that you do not consider it state sponsored terror!

Branden, no one on this thread used the word racist before you did. Way to LISTEN. Muslims are a race? dumbass

you guys seem to forget that only about %20 of the 1.2 billion or so Muslims in the world are actually Arab as you sit here and classify the whole Islamic religion based on the actions of a small portion of a minority population....

muslims are no more a race than jews/christians are a "race"

When citing examples (historical) it might help to keep them in their proper historical context.

Strictly speaking terrorism is a tactic that can be employed by military/paramilitary/other organizations used for the purpose of instilling fear in the civilian population and typically does not have a sound military objective.

What the Japanese did to canadian pows is NOT terrorism, neither is what the 12 SS did. Violations of the geneva convention, while making you a "war criminal" or whatever does not make you a terrorist.

If you want to use WW2 as examples the arguably the bombing of London and the leveling of Dresden were "terrorist" acts. (There are many many more examples committed by many of the countries involved but that would require an essay in itself). However, one is taking events out of historical context. WW2 was an example (I think the only example in human history) of "total war" where every single resource possible of a country was dedicated to war/war production and everything/everyone was a target.

In any case: in a real full scale conflict, "rules of war" are somewhat meaningless.
See the "great african war" aka what happened to what is now know as "the Democractic Republic of Congo"

For 20th century: I could also list
Korean war
Vietnam
Afghanistan
Columbia
Iran/Iraq
Suez Crises
and on and on and on...

I wouldn't call carpet bombing a terrorist tactic given the context of WWII aerial bombing. Carpet bombing of cities was regular and part of aviation war tactics, as at the time it was the only available option for large scale aerial attacks.

If you wanna talk WWII terrorist tactics, let's talk things like buzz bombs, suicide dogs, and GI land mine traps (laying dead soldier on land mine so medic is killed when soldier is moved) etc....

To me, the true definition of terrorism isn't defined in how it's executed, it's defined in the pyschological results of taking things that are normally safe and turning them unsafe. This is also why I would consider it a stretch to call the tactics employed in a lot of the examples listed above as "terroristic" - when employed in a battlefield style war, they're not nearly as effective psychologically, as no one really expects to be safe when there are bombs and guns and tanks all over the place anyways...not to mention that in a lot of cases, civilian casualties were not the primary goal of the attack itself, which is another defining quality of terrorism imo.

Wow....this got interesting quick. I like both conflicting sides and the arguments. I don't like Neil, and I will explain why below.

"The way you think of muslims is how germans thought of jews dude, it would be funny in thats its pathetic expect your american and think you have the god given right to blast your ignorance everywhere and have people take your laughable worldview seriously.

What has a muslim person ever done to anyone here? Then talk smack dude, when you know people who have died in the middle east as a direct response to american or Israeli FP its a little more real than what fox news tells you while you sit in your backwoods hick town i dont know any muslims or gays but i dont like em kkk wanna be george bush supporting trailer trash. Stop pretending you know what your talking about and study the history of US bombing in ww2 or life since '67 in the occupied areas. "

The beginning of this statement BLEW MY MIND. After reading it I was glad I AM AMERICAN. You just gave me a little satisfaction in knowing that ignorance is worldwide and not restricted to my country. Luckily we have some users on here that actually have half a brain and made this thread a little more interesting.

How it got ramped into world wars, genocide, and Canadian POW's I have no idea.

What has a Muslim ever done to anyone here? Other then the 3500 people who died when a few airplanes took a wrong turn in NYC? Please do remember that they didn't kill ONLY Americans. It was called the WORLD Trade Center for a reason. There were many foreign nationals there as well.

Now I am sure you aren't great in math, but let's feel it out together. I'll hold your hand.

Let's say that by some rarity all of those 3500 people had a family. Let's say in their families there were children. Let's also say that they MAY have had a brother or sister. Possibly a mother and father. Let's go ahead and assume that their brother or sister has a family. Let's say their husband or wife has a mother and father......

Ok I could go on and on about how this spider webs to the masses. I, however, have probably used up what short attention span you may have.

I know what your initial response is going to be ALREADY. It's freaky. Witchcraft even.

But I never said that Muslims are not being affected by terrorism. I also never said that you don't know someone, directly, who has been affected by terrorism.

But PLEASE don't assume NO ONE here hasn't ALSO been directly affected by terrorism.

I am not anti-Muslim. I am merely anti-Neil at this point. I feel bad for TAN because you are probably one of the people that he can't stand. He has actually been helpful.

Ok, well I am sure I will get your response in a bit here. Full of idiocy and assumptions. Let's just tip the scale here. You are anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, and anti-progress. Probably anti-babies too. Possibly anti-African Penguin too.

I will leave you with some words from an enlightened man.

"Dibs Ludicrous

You are obviously anti-Islamic based on anecdotal evidence.

I am not going to show your deliverance ass any stats until you say if you will become antisemitic if I can prove this to you...."

WTF!? Mind Boggles.

At this point, and I suppose I should have realized this at the beginning, it's futile arguing with hick, hoop & co. Nothing I say will convince them, so there's no point furthering the discussion.

"To you your beliefs, and to me mine." -quran

does this mean I can close the thread now?:P
Or will tan ab fs tag martian if I do??

martian is n00b.

that's not true. we can afford old, decommissioned soviet tanks!

TAN, you're right. you will not convince me that al-quaeda/ the taliban are good and that america is bad.

I would be impressed if he did, given that's not what he was trying to do...

NOW3P, it is pointless arguing with these guys.

To them, if one defends Islam, they are automatically Taliban supporters. It's like calling someone an anti-Semite for criticizing Israel--it's juvenile, immature and makes no sense.

TAN, you are not just defending islam, you are defending taliban and the likes. when somebody says something against terrorists, you come out screaming that "christians do it to!!!!" nobody said that all muslims are bad, but you are the one making such comments about all muslims when people talk about the taliban etc.

Hick, you are stupid, and you're the first person on AT I've ever insulted personally.

When people blanket Islam and correlate it with terrorism, yes I get defensive, because terrorism is committed by EVERYBODY. And terrorism, no matter who does it, is detestable.

(Hick will not read that last sentence or he will twist it to make another attack on me. Watch and lol at how predictable the trolls are)

nobody blanketed and correlated it but you TAN! thats what im trying to say. people say something bad about the taliban etc. and you act as if its an attack on islam as a whole. you are the one blanketing and correlating here.

see? he ignored it! case closed. lolololol

P.S. The Taliban was NEVER brought up in this thread.

TAN just go live in afghanistan already if you hate america so much.

Mullah Omar gave me a handjob last night while we watched suicide pr0n. I cheated on Bin Laden. Don't tell him, please!