( . Y . )

that bothers me too... i'd love to see the old sof and not what it has become now...

please define this "old sof"

ae you refering to the fluffmonkey that was ivan that picked on random, weak netting clans for no reason? is that the glorious old SoF that you want back?

I think monsters and icn would disagree with this...

Meet the new SoF, same as the old SoF. Except with a dash of Hanlong thrown in.

If you goal was to get revenge on the folks that oop FS'd you last set, you seem to have missed your mark.

There was more to it than LaF picking on you. It was also more to it than SoF/LaF bloc wanting you dead. SoF had no intentions of hitting Evo. SoF doesn't care about Evo...whatever problems you had with LaF was with LaF and not with SoF.


You guys want it both ways. You want to help your warring allies by joining their FSs, stand at the ready with FA and a possible supporting FS, and add yourself to political leverage but yet you want to be netters.

Perhaps sitting down with LaF/SoF for an honest discussion would help. Changing your pact structure might help. You know what else would help? Not FSing an alliance like SoF after "good" relations. Next time, let SoL/Monsters FS SoF. You guys continue this cycle each year. Just like SoL and MD; claim you want change, accept some sort of agreement, then hit SoF when you are stronger.

This recent turn in relations between SoL/SoF and SoF/Evo might make your goals a bit more difficult unless you guys make some drastic, and perhaps selfish, changes.

Having said that, I do appreciate your viewpoint. You want to help your allies...but remember that it was your allies that decided they wanted to net last set while you were tagkilled and it's your allies that keep dragging you into these coalition wars. There are some alliances that fought on your side that won't be hit in the near future....if ever. I wonder why that is.

If any of MD's friends think about helping MD, just remember that MD chickened out last set and allowed you guys to be tagkilled AFTER "LaF wiped out your breakers"....all so they could be brag about beating LaF in average net in their State of MD vid.

Fight hard for your good friends.

eat fluff MD better start getting your FA returned from SOL!

We made a mistake, we'll go back to netting now please disregard all the hits.

i want super aussie type of reps, u can either pay them urself xyle (who i know isnt the real one) or u can send cypress to my room

I dont think so :)

wow many war

such impressive

very scary

wow

Yawn

Just wondering why people keep talking about the "Gangbang" last reset of "SEM" hitting SoF with a 30 member advantage. No one seems to have a problem with SoF hitting MD with a 30 member advantage? I guess it is okay for SoF to do it but not for anyone else to do it to them...

Chaz: The war department is pretty strong

Murf: The war looks to be fun. Hoping we let the other side get a numbers advantage.

Norcal: It's the same thing like you are saying. War.

I have no idea who this Zahc is but I dont see his name listed under MD Members.

chaz, ex long time SoFer that left in a fit of butthurt rage, and every AT post since has been dripping with said butthurt and emotional distress

i'm referring to the old sof from way back where Helmet, Scorpion, StarSoFt, LordCommand and a bunch of oldies were still active...

Any questions?

How much is the kitty in the window?

ahhhh ... an x-sofer

we have a few of those here :P

The old SoF?

You mean like when Helmet said stuff like this:


=========
Helmet
Member Oct 28th, 2001 9:04
If you make us mad, we'll kill you

I don't see why it's so hard to understand. Respect our rules or fight us.

Even if you fight us we wont' respect yours. If you think for a second that attacking us will get you any progress then you're sadly mistaken. Ask SoL if you need some advice. They learned the hard way several times in a row.

It's our way or war.

Flame me, hate me, run multies on me if you want.
=============

Okay.

which rules did md disrespect? what killing did you do? youll leave the heavy lifting to laf when they come in with built war countries against countries hanging on by a thread. but yes those are the days i miss in sof. 80% of today sofers couldnt name 5 original m0m0. unless its on wiki somewhere.

apo: maybe, havent been there for two sets so its possible some ixers became more active. how you been? out of retirement for reunion?

ford: sof glorydays were before ivan. ivan coming to power was the beginning of the downfall. xyle put sof back on the right direction and i was on board for a while. got alot of respect for him but hes only one guy. its the rest of leadership thats fubared(cept cypress now that shes back).

wow original m0m0????

I dont think i could but fluff i cant remember when m0m0 started.

My first memory of m0m0 now would have to be the set where m0m0 as a tag maybe ended up fighting RD?? I think it was the first time they tagged but could of been a div before that? Think beltz had a lot to do with leadership then as PRINCESS fluff, this would be 2001, my memory so hazy these days on the matters, i remember some imaggers tagging m0m0 for the war including mysel, well i think i did but not 100% sure but i know the set after was my first set in DA where i was sent to learn FA from Lady Japri by beltz.

who cares alot of those m0m0's are assholes

If you are niave enough to think that a problem with Laf does not involve Sof then I have a bridge to sell you in the desert. Sof and Laf have been very tight allies and had a very for you or against you attitude.

martian

I named one

"and it's your allies that keep dragging you into these coalition wars."

I'd say its SoF who everytime they risk a even war call in kitchensink that creates coalition wars, lets see if you are man enough this time.

hey bolty!

m0m0! :)

LOL, so true :)

Chaz: I am good. Still on IRC as always.

MmixX: Helmet and Scorpion are playing this set. Haven't seen StarSoft for YEARS. LordCommand was no much to SoF in the historical sense. Other old heads like damatt, khan, Lights, AlfredNobel, Hombre, come to mind long before LC. Although, I do remember him playing as a leader.

m0m0: Started the second set of SoF after the short reset where SoF was hit by Avengers. It is an IRC division and probably has more original members still around than most divisions in the game. I am counting anyone from 2001 as original since almost no one here knows the original people from efnet. (lect, bludrag0n, xmen, etc.)

note: Alfred was not a head

by old sof he means WHEN I RULED IT WITH AN IRON FIST OF fluffY DDOOM AND SOLD ALL MEMBERS INTO SLAVERY!

*kicks boltar* I know you are but.. ah screw it... BOLTAR GO JEM!
*was around from 2000, apo means 2000 not 2001:P*

++martian
KING OF THE TROLLS

I always thought that iron fist was holding a hat with slips of paper in it

Zahc:

"which rules did md disrespect?"

Don't FA our enemies during war. In general, stay out of our way.

"what killing did you do? "

Is this referring to this set? Not sure what you are getting at here. SoF has killed a few MD members but so far SoF has focused on farming and AB runs. Not sure why they have to have "killruns" to be successful. If you think that's the way to win a war THIS set at THIS time then you need to rethink your position a bit.


=======
locket-

Perhaps you should expand on your rhetoric. Merely restating your opposing hypothesis without an argument isn't going to cut it.

It's no secret that SoF and LaF are allies, but that does not mean they share the same grudges. If you actually knew anything about their politics, you would know how true that statement is.

Again, Evo made the assumption that they should stand up to SoF because of what LaF did. SoF isn't LaF and SoF did not have Evo in their crosshairs….nor did they need to or want to.

lol hey i said alot of them were assholes.. not all of them ;)

hey daniel!

yep... i remember them... and afaik, someone did mention that helmet and scorpion still play... i think it's on SoF's FB group... and LC was i think my div leader on [R]... but i still don't hate SoF... just some of your members :D

RevX > m0m0 > all

We didn't hit Sof out of spite of because of any grudges, because as you said, there were none. But after Laf threw away 4 sets of working together, it became pretty clear that Evo will not be able to sit on the sidelines and net peacefully like Omega can do. So we either continue our previous policy, and maybe net for 2-3 sets, and then get flattened again(like each of our allies had been individually before us), or we work with out allies to stand up to the Laf/Sof bloc.

That's what last set was about. Stand together or die apart. That's pretty much it right there.

As far as our allies just leaving us to die two sets ago; they didn't. Paradigm came when we asked and stood beside us. We didn't ask anyone else for help, not even for FA. We were outgunned and outfought, but we did the best we could on our own merits. I think we definitely got under Laf's skin though :) Was fun to receive demands and requests that we CF every other day, and hearing them fluff about their originals dying :)

PPS: We didn't hit Sof when we were stronger. We hit them after losing a long and demoralizing war and we had lost 40% of our membership.

Each of your allies have plotted against us after we extended our hands in peace. For example, SoF and SoL were on the verge of mending fences until Makinso came back.

LaF had their reasons for hitting you....but again it's not SoF's problem or their fault. I understand your position but there is a way out....but I think it requires more than what you are willing to give. You can't both be leverage for your allies and claim neutrality.

You guys claim you don't want to participate in these bloc politics....but yet you did it to us last set. By hitting SoF instead of LaF, you guys made it about coalition A vs coalition B.

You guys should have joined with PDM, and FSd LaF instead....or stayed at the ready to FS LaF if they joined. Despite being a part of the TiVo tag, TIE didn't enter another coalition war. Take a cue from them.

Now it's really difficult to sell your "Evo wants peace" story to both the leadership and membership of SoF when you have shown that SoF will be judged on the actions of their allies. Our pacts can be broken each set because you guys want to play coalition politics.


I was referring to MD. They stood ready to FS after LaF wiped out Evo.....but then they backed. That's not what a good ally does. If your goal is stand up to the SoF/LaF bloc, your allies need to give it their all instead of allowing you to take the fall.

i hate agreeing with tella, but that's a pretty accurate post :-/

it should bother everyone here that standing up for yourself is perceived as grudge wars by SoF/LaF, but when they actually carry out grudges (like specifically decide to fight someone because of a grudge -- either long standing netting, short term politically advantageous reason, or just making up a reason to fight because they don't like someone) but when anyone in the LaF/SoF camp stand up for themselves (or their allies), it's a righteous endeavour.

folks used to at least have the courage to hold themselves to the same standards they held others to and not remain in perma-spin mode. those days are long gone and I don't expect them back :p

edit:
I should add that SoL & MD were no better when they were "on top" of the server over the last couple of years, and in many ways, they were actually worse.

That's not quite right.

The issue, as I see it at least, is that Evo wishes to "net peacefully and avoid coalition wars" while they actively participate in coalition politics.

It is true that from time to time one may be targeted for BS, grudges, or failed FA. But that does not entail "bloc politics".

As for standing up for your allies, SoF commends Evo for standing with their allies. Good for them. You won't see that praise because you don't have access to SoF's discussion boards. However, that comes with a price. Entering a coalition war doesn't end when you, especially the loser, wants it to end. That's up to the winner. if you really want to show SoF you want out, then make dramatic changes to your FA policies and remember that SoF and LaF are not the same alliance. SoF cannot be blamed for FS LaF makes and vice versa.

*huggles Boltar* I'm sure we can make an exception for you :)

kinda like when they beat MD during MD's reunion set? Despite MD being larger, calling in outside FA, and accepting a stocked tagjumper?

MauricXe, I think you are misreading what I posted. We 'WERE' trying to stay out and stay neutral. We even downgraded MD to unap last year when they started tackling Sof. We were OUT. And then Laf hit us and brought us back in. That was 2 sets ago, and last set marked the point where Evo has had to change its priorities.

I'm not trying to claim that we're wanting peace and neutrality at this point. I mean, we'll take what we can get, but we HAVE to stick with our allies or we're toast, solely at the leisure of Laf and other larger alliances.

Pang, why do you hate to agree with me? I think you and I agree on quite a bit, actually :)

not usually politically :p

I understand and I appreciate your position.

But remember SoF is not LaF. Take your issues up with LaF. I think you would have done a bigger service to your position if you waited to FS LaF instead of jumping on SoF. It was LaF, not SoF, that decided to end TiVo's netting goals because of some sort of netting disagreement. I can't see any reason for SoF to have engaged Evo last set, this set, or any set in the near future. I think you may have misread the situation....but again I can sympathize with why you would have done so.

Aside from some sort of failed FA incident, I don't see the need for conflict between SoF/Evo. I do recognize that FA matters can be muddled for both sides because of past differences and general dislike between specific members and leaders. However, I think "goodfaith FA relations" between SoF and Evo can overcome those challenges.

Agreed. But my allies had a different plan, and we went along with it, for better or for worse :)

Politically like ingame or like real world(lolz)?

Good luck to you guys. Hopefully we can improve on things a bit later.

ingame; i'm not sure where you stand on real world stuff... :p

buthopefully on the left with me. :p