We all know that Self Farming in FFA is a touchy subject. Half the server agree's with it, Half the server does not.

But we can all atleast agree on 1 thing. The current system is a little to easy for the Self Farmers.




Example:

Countrys A Gains 9k acres in 24hrs.

Country A (#1) hits Country B (#2) with 5-10 SS's for 3k acres
Country A (#1) hits Country C (#3) with 5-10 SS's for 3k acres
Country A (#1) hits Country D (#4) with 5-10 SS's for 3k acres
Country B (#2) hits Country A (#1) with 3 GS/AB's for DH's
Country C (#3) hits Country A (#1) with 3 GS/AB's for DH's
Country D (#4) hits Country A (#1) with 3 GS/AB's for DH's
Country B (#2) Explores @ 30+ per turn with rest of turns
Country C (#3) Explores @ 30+ per turn with rest of turns
Country D (#4) Explores @ 30+ per turn with rest of turns

This happens day in, day out. And then 10+ days later, you have someone sitting on over 100k Acres. When not 1 non-self farming country has reached 15k Acres.



Let me remind you, this all happens with Country A holding 4 tanks, or 4 Troops, and Country B/C/D sending 1 troop/tank GS/AB's. Keeping Country A in DR 24/7.



Look... If you want to turn the server into "I can hit myself better than you can" then keep what we got. Because nobody can compete NW wise with the Self Farmers.


I suggest -

Reduce the DR length of any failed attack to 6 Hours instead of 24.

Reduce the DR length of any successful attack to 6 Hours instead of 24.



This gives the current players that Self Farm a few options.


They can log in 4x/day to put there country in DR instead of just 1x/day.

They can use teamwork with there clan to put there country into DR 4x/day instead of just 1x/day.

They can actually buy reasonable defense instead of using DR as there defense tool.




These suggestions still allow people to Self Farm. But it does make players actually work for it. Instead of just handing it too them on a silver plater.




You guys have options here. But if it continues like this, I know my clan with 200+ Country will just pick a netting tag every set and war them. Just so they cannot self farm. I really don't want to do that, because some of these netters will just pack up there bags and leave the game. But we will do everything we possibly can to prevent this lazy method of netgaining. I just hope that you, the game mods, can see our side of view on this.


And I am not proposing eliminating it, I am just saying, quit making it so damn easy for them to do it. And leaving us no way to combat it except for declaring war.

why do you care how people maximize their networth? you're a warring clan who has no intention of competing for TNW.. Let netters play how they want and provide beefy LG targets for you.

I'm okay with self-farming in FFA, but I do think in general ghost acres have become a bit overpowered. So while you suggest to make a change for DR, I would suggest a limit on how much land is received from each attack. Specifically, ghost acres shouldn't be more land than the base amount. It could also be interesting to make some rule where you need so many offense points per acre you take. Then you can't have a 1 jet PS take 4000 acres, you'd need maybe 2 million (saying 1 million offense per 1000 acres).

Hope it's not too off topic, but those would be my additional thoughts to help.

I checked top five land in FFA:

142,364 acres
63,132 acres
37,120 acres
35,464 acres
32,216 acres

If it's so easy to do why is there only one country out of 3346 that has over 100k acres?

Deldly shut up about going to war for no reason other than you dont like self farming. i am getting tired of this crap

This thread has no merit

I still think that if you want to get rid of self-farming (and I could care less, I'll play whichever way currently gives me the best advantage and most entertainment), that the best way is probably either completely getting rid of ghost acres or preventing ghost acres from applying on hits within one's own tag.

Of course, there's still ways around that, with people from allied clans trading hits, but at least that's a hell of a lot more work than it currently is.

Once again though, my suggestion is simply that, a suggestion. It is neither a vote for or against self-farming.

he has land unbuilt too ;P. Only my 39k acres country is fully built in ffa. Self farming take skills to master and theres many way to do it.

hmhmmm Slagpit those tops seem off. llaar has scored countries with over 1M land that way ? :-P

Ugh nvm those are current stats for the top 5.


However, tops have been over 1M land. Whilest I do think self farming is not a bad thing. Maybe some limits should be applied or maybe it should be made harder to self DR??.

Maybe it should be made so that specialized are not possible intra tag ?

Ghost acre formula was changed after the 90M A country or whatever it was.

i would have thought Swords would be happy, so far in the land trading we have done, you guys are ahead with ghost acres

Of course every single Self Farming player on the server comes to try and defend this.


Instead of defending Self Farming, try reading my fluffing post.


We are giving the admins a way to fix this situation before the war clans that disapprove of self farming just start killing netting clans every set because they self farm.



FYI... Slagpit... Those countrys at 30k+ land I can break with my 7k acre countrys. If it wasn't for a retarded loophole where 1 troop GS's against 4 troop defense = DR that lasts 24hrs.

I'm not really for or against self farming. I tried it one set just to see how far I could push it, and wasn't overly entertained so haven't done it since. I could also care less if someone wants to self farm as a form of netting, since there are currently no game rules to govern it.

With this in mind, I can still say I'm against this idea both in spirit and in practice. The process of limiting DR's is too complex to engineer on a software level without making it easily abusable, and I see no point in limiting a very legitimate netting strategy just because some folks who don't net anyways don't think it's a productive practice.

In short, to each his own. As long as it's not hurting you, why worry about how folks run their turn and take advantage of the current formulas/rules? It's just another level of competition that you are more than free to choose not to take part in.

What does it matter if your techers can break them? If you can break them, go ahead, grab them.

The core of your argument is that it's too easy to self farm and get 100k+ acres, yet only one country on the server has over 100k acres. Only 2 countries have half of that. What are you basing the level of difficulty on?

smurf you should really get ur figures right

farms dont explore at 30 acres a turn

I don't give a fluff how much acres farms explore.


I don't give a fluff that there is only 1 country over 100k acres at this point.


I Just don't give a fluff to be honest.


But if you want us to take it there. We will...


Good luck to those every wishing to net in FFA with self farming.

it's server politics much like Land : Land retals and x hour retal windows.

you don't like them gaining land that way? fight them.

if the Admins think it's a fault, they would fix it.

you say they have 4 troops right? GS them to death, done.

Smurf how can you post an idea and expect people to take it serious if you dont get all the info before you make the post?


as to the DR, personally i dont think people should do it, 6 hours is too short, maybe 12 hours is better,


but like i have said plenty of times , if you want to talk to TKO about Self farming then message me and we can discuss it

cause those countries are in 20 DR, so a grab would get you like 20 acres. lol

And there is only 1 major self farming clan not at war which is why land is lower this set than normally. KA(lae) is normally up there with TKO in land but they are tag killed and panlv and focus are both warring as well although they dont normally self farm all that much.

It's possible to get 5500A off a single grab from a 200k acre country even if that 200k acre country is in max dr.

You guys seemingly want to punish netters for some reason. I honestly don't understand it. There are only two major netting tags in FFA, don't they have a hard enough time?

Tags like swords deliberately run low land countries. You may think it's in your best interest to run low land countries. However, because your countries have such low land, it's not worth it for others to grab them. This is exactly like netters putting their countries in DR. How can you fault them?

putting your countries into DR and running low land countries are not at all the same. Putting your country in DR gives you the benefit of high land without the risk of being grabbed.

As for getting 5500 acres off a 200k acre in max dr, I will take you word for it cause I have never tried it but that doesn't seem right. Even if it were, then after th retal you wouldn't net all that much so the 200k acre country would barely be effected.

I am not sure what you mean by the netting tags having it hard, what are you referring to?

all that being said, the issue that I have with self farming is the players that do it dont take being grabbed or warred well and I have seen quite a few of them quit cause all the want is to be left alone and play by themselves. If self farmers were ok being grabbed and warred on occasion then who cares, let them do what they want. So in short, the issue isn't the self farming it's with the players that are doing it ;) (with some exceptions of course)

Of course it's the same. Warring tags run whatever countries they feel will work best. They almost always run countries with low land. Warrers think they don't get grabbed because of their amazing defense, but the truth is they don't get grabbed because they keep such low land. I don't see any warring tags deliberately choosing a worse strategy just so others can grab them and be happy?

I don't accept your argument about self farming players. If that was actually the case then people like DeDLySMuRF wouldn't have to manufacture a war just by FSing an alliance that they picked out of a hat. Conflict between alliances would naturally happen on its own.

I dont think that could have been explained better slag. the problem here is these people are too stubborn to see it from a different point of view. it directly contradicts thier moral justifactions for warring people who self farm.

i really liked you suggestion of requiring them to have 15k acres before they can war. :)

ok lemme explain it a little more slag.

running low land countries may keep you from getting grabbed but you pay for it by running high expenses and less production. DRing yourself allows you to keep low expenses and high production. Not the same at all except that both would not get grabbed but neither do countries in protection or vacation or dead and you wouldn't say they were the exact same would you?


whether you accept my argument or not its true. The only 2 resets I have grabbed self farmers I got suicided both times because I "ruined their set" (I made 1 grab on their main both times). The first set I came back Dragon rage quit cause he got grabbed once (maybe twice I dont remember). Every single time NBK goes to war there are like 200 posts of whining cause they just want to be left alone to net. Whenever NBK doesn't war and we grab self farmers the board is full of crying and whining about how we are ruining the game and being bullies. Maybe the answer is to make seperate warring and netting servers?

on a seperate note, what did you mean by max dr? cause I am curious as to how far into DR you meant cause max DR would return 10 acres no matter how many acres the country had. Otherwise landkills would be super easy.

Let's say I have a 15k all-X rep casher. I want to landgrab someone, but the other tags are full of 7k warring countries. Even if I grab a 7k acre country with 0 defense, that grab still isn't worth it. I'll lose far more than I gain. That's what I mean by low land acting as defense. How many turrets your 7k acre country has is completely irrelevant for landgrabbing purposes.

I know that some people feel entitled to their land. If they quit, it sounds like that problem solved itself. I'd say it was wrong for him to suicide on you, but I imagine that your tag got revenge on his tag?

People feeling entitled to never getting grabbed are just as bad as people who feel entitled to a large grab just because another country has a lot of acres. Not all self farmers put themselves into DR. Not all self farmers are perfect with the DR. I'm sure there are very good targets out there, but it's an issue because large countries just can't be grabbed at will for 20% of their acres?

Max DR = 10% of PS/SS returns = 12+ DR count
The 10A minimum actually raises returns. It's not related to DR.

max DR is after 12 hits, reducing grabs to 10% original (non-DR) size I believe

because it's theoretically possible to take 18% of somebody's land, 18% of 200k = 36000A / 10 = 3600A + buildings should = 5400A

(and if you're a small-land war country this should be fairly easy)

ah slag responded too quick for me

There actually wouldn't be ghost acres so it would "only" be around 3600A.

Translation - I've been proven wrong in my point, now I'm going to go throw a hissy fit.

I thought I was being nice, considering his post basically translated to: "change the game to how I want or I'll drive players from it".

slagpit stop using logic here. its wasted text.

and again for people who dont know how DR works, when someone is in heavy DR and you farm them, each grab nets more land than the previous, not the other way around. try it some time.

im not positive about the 10A but i think that only comes after they reach a certain acre level. max DR on a 3-4k acre country is around 23-24A from what ive noticed.

i achieved over 1 million acres the first set of FFA

before there were any ghost acres at all

FYI....

so 1 mill acres 'with' ghost acres as the formula is now... its easy to get over 1 mill acres. im just better at it than anyone else though... :P

and theres like maybe 10 vocal people on the subject against it.. not 'half the server'

maybe we should give llaar a 50% handicap :) haha jk

I am not following you on the DR thing, how would farming them further into DR make the returns higher? or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

the max DR is 10 for more than 3k acres cause we landkilled a 10 acre country a couple sets back and we were getting 10 acre returns at like 4k-5k acres if I remember correctly. It took nearly 600 hits to kill it. There may be a minumum like you were saying tho, never tested it, I just assumed it would go down to 10 after a certain number of hits. landkilling a 200k acres country would be epic!

i think he's being sarcastic or trying to spread misinformation...

(DR definitely makes returns less)

For countries above 9A with no ghost acres involved:

$land_taken = max(10, $dr * $land * $other_stuff)

If a country is in 0 DR then $dr = 1
If a country is in max DR then $dr = 0.1
For other situations, $dr is between 0.1 and 1

and the minimum DR is *10%* of what you would normally get; and the lowest normal return is 3%; so minimum hit is 0.3% of land

which for a 200kA country is 600A MINIMUM; but the maximum hit in maximum DR on said country would be 3600A if you did a PS with all the right conditions

'course the *maximum* hit on a 200kA country would be 36000A+18000A ghost acres

seeing as how there is no bug or worthwhile suggestion, can this thread be closed?

How about if we just ban dedlysmurf? Problem solved!

even better

Aren't you in iMag? How were we able to agree so quickly? lol

Nope! I haven't played alliance in EE. You may be thinking OzzyBattlers?

Either way, I am usually arguing with DeDLy on FFAT =]

Really? Ok, wanna join NA? :)