if its obvious one player grabs the same player/country/tag with two separate countries does that make escalating retals apply?

heres some examples:

2 probably the same player grabs in 24 hours, should the second be 2:1?
PS Aug 21, 00:31 Dizology leads to Chaos (#1218) NBK The Spice (#1333) ESD 3216 A
PS Aug 21, 00:48 Silent Assassin the Juggernaut (#1225) NBK You Throw Knives (#1327) ESD 2953 A

looks like the same guy hit again 58 hours later
PS Aug 23, 10:58 GunGrave is Just A Thought (#1220) NBK Hard Knock Life (#1331) ESD 2759 A


guy with 2 countries with the same name hits 2 countries of the same player, should the second be 2:1?
PS Aug 23, 14:53 insert peter laugh here (#164) NBK Here Comes Science (#1332) ESD 4183 A
PS Aug 23, 14:58 insert peter laugh here (#165) NBK The Spice (#1333) ESD 4082 A

this ones the same country so its definately escalating on the second hit and because there is a pact i think it should be 6:2 rather than 3:2
PS Aug 23, 06:50 CRNA GORA (#1193) GetLaEd Hard Knock Life (#1331) ESD 3557 A
PS Aug 23, 06:51 CRNA GORA (#1193) GetLaEd The Spice (#1333) ESD 3905 A

yes

So kinda like this enshula?

Aug 23/10 10:43:12 AM PS Rebel Venom (#1223) (NBK) tHe SlEePiNg GiAnT 1 (#1957) (PANLV) 2306 A (+1101 A)
Aug 23/10 10:38:33 AM PS Silent Assassin the Juggernaut (#1225) (NBK) Carousel of Progress (#682) (PANLV) 2339 A (+1105 A)

Aug 23/10 4:19:51 PM PS The Grinch makes me happy (#69) (NBK) dirty sanchez (#653) (PANLV) 4051 A (+1906 A)
Aug 23/10 3:20:01 PM PS Gambit can x my man (#73) (NBK) SO INTENSE (#88) (PANLV) 1443 A (+302 A)

I say no, hitting different countries with the same one does not count as a 3:2. If whatever clan is being hit more then 4 times a day by the opposing clan I would contact an FA as that would be closer to farming.

As for attacking your allies, I would do 2:1 on everything, and if you don't get your full amount of land back contact an FA to see if it can be increased as people shouldn't be grabbing their allies to begin with.

Also if the countries hitting me were almost only jets, then I would have a bit of a problem with it, I would deal with it on my own by way of landgrabs, but I would do something. If balanced countries were hitting me and getting through, then that is my own fault for having all my countries too weak. If you look at the attacks, how can 1 country do multiple PS's on larger countries if the larger countries had anything resembling a defense.

wtf...so you think if u run an entire sting with basically no d, that your entire sting should only bit hit once every 72h?
did i miss something?

Apparently the new strategy is to have tons of land, no military, and try to make up rules you can't enforce to justify it. (And one hit per 72 hours on a string of defenseless countries is sorta a silly non-justifiable rule)

Go talk to mob, texhomo, jiff, and bauer if u wanna know lae's policy on farming

If everyone enforced the 1 hit kill thing you fellows are doing, then NBK woulda had our war already, lol.

Our commies' military won't sell until we grab more people and make them buy it. We come out ahead in 2 different ways in 1 attack.

lol, that is one effective way to cause the prices to go up :P

you have to admit, the commies right now are happy.

everyone is buying turrets like crazy atm

Thumbs up to this

Brilliant idea to bring FA to FFAT, especially topics that haven't been dealt with with the respective alliances. Lets see how far that gets ESD, enshula :-P

I saw the spyops of the ESD countries that LaE hit. 4 mil jets, 25k turrets or something..LOL

no extra retals, strings shouldn't be attached into the retalrules


1 single retal, country didn't break any offensive rule imho


no, both should be 1:1, adding the no strings attached rule

all this is based on a pactless relationship ofcourse

you clan leaders make me sick

Retal Rules: Non Allied Clans


In the matter of Standard Strikes and Planned Strikes;
1 hit means 1 retal.
2 consecutive hits, means 3 retals and is determined as 1 retal for the first hit, and 2 for the second. Example; Country #1 hits country #2 twice, Country #2 can retal 3 times. But, if Country #1 hits country #2 once, and hits Country #3 once. Country #2 can retal country #1 once, but Country #3 gets 2 retals.
3 consecutive hits, means 7 retals and is determined at 1 retal for the first hit, 2 for the second, and 4 for the third.
4 hits by one country to our clan will result in us seeking FA matters to find a way to resolve the matter as peacefully as we can, however the minimum we will accept is 12 authorized retals. If there are 4 hits on our clan by your tag within a 24 hour time frame, the first country will be retaled once, the second, twice, four times for the 3rd, and eight times for the 4th. Because of the amount of retals needing to be done, FA contacts will be required beforehand.
5 or more hits by a single country will result in it most likely being killed unless the offending clans FA can work something out peacefully. 5 or more hits made by a single clan in 24 hours will also result in FA contact because obviously there is a problem developing that needs solved.

As unfair as this retal policy may sound, it is designed to deter other people and clans from taking advantage of ours, thinking that we will just roll over and give them land. Respect our retal policy, and respect for your clan will be returned.

Retal Policies for allied clans will be on a pact by pact basis, but will generally begin at 2:1 retals (two retals per grab)

Using Spies;

Using spies in an information gathering capacity is perfectly fine providing you are not camping out taking a peak at our countries everyday. Doing a spy op, a ally op, or a market op. is acceptable. However, if our entire clan has a list of spy ops being done on them, the entire clan will be put in an alert status, and prepare for war. This is done with good reason and should not really need much more explaining beyond that.

Harmful spy-ops, basically any spy-op not listed in the previous paragraph will be dealt with as the following.
Obviously, if you do not fail the op, you cannot get caught. However if you fail, every spy op done in that hour will be assumed as yours. If there are more than 3 ops done your clan FA will be contacted and your country will most likely be killed depending on the severity of the attacks (i.e., if you just did 3, you may just get retaled a few times, but if you did 30, your country will die, even if you failed 29 of them)

Missile Attacks;

These will not be tolerated, and will be treated as,

1 attack : 3 retals
2 attacks: 7 retals
3 attacks: FA Contact, offender most likely farmed.
4 attacks: FA Contact, offender most likely killed.
5 Attacks: Offender will be killed, Offense will be treated as an act of war if Offending clan does not contact our clan within 24 hours.

enshula, you should focus on the part in those retal rules that mentions a clan hitting another clan 4 times in a 24 hour period :P



By the way, I'm amazed at how once upon a time EVERY clan had a set of retal rules they could provide to their members, and the public... yet since this server re-opened... FoCuS has been the only one able to do that

NBK has it on our website :D

im not trying to do FA here just wondering if people do escalating retals like that

and i wasnt suggesting anything about 72 hours really, just that perhaps in 24 hours retals should be escalating

btw if you look at the retal policy recently posted on AT, i think it was SoL said they do escalating 72 hour retals which i thought was a bit strange

but of course in ffa if you hit 16 countries each with 16 of your countries in 5 minutes i wonder how people would react

anyway im going to change what im doing a little bit so it shouldnt really be an issue

We are gonna do if more then 5 hits from one clan within 24 hour period, 2:1 on hits after that. Personally I think it is a bit low, and will consider raising it once people are grabbing us that much. Also figuring out what is retals and what is grabs is harder too, gonna take a full time retal minister, lol.

if you really want to go for that sort of thing perhaps you should allow x hits/24 hours where x depends on the smaller of the attacker/defender tags country numbers

so 500v500 maybe 20 hits a day might be ok

bur 50v50 maybe 20 hits a day might be too many

2 hits = 3 retals unless a pact states otherwise. If that's not getting you your land back, you ought to consider investing in more turrets.

4mil jets is a good deterrent to grabbing.....unless you're sitting on 50k acres of land and holding a few billion worth of cash/stock and only carrying 75k def.

Twiz smokes pole

^^ Much Truth.

he he he - I love the edit button :-)

I agree enshula, but we we make the rule apply to us both ways. And doing 20 his a day in a 500 v 500 most people would really freak out about that, lol. If other people are willing to do that, I would be too :D

i think it should be a set % based on total countries,
the small the clan the less hits you can potentially take.
this would encourage small clans to start up

It would work if everyone landgrabbed. It doesn't work when it's only us, lol.

Didn't this whole silly debate start because people were land grabbing? I know NBK isn't the only ones to spot those super meaty countries that couldn't possibly retal their land/stock back given their current level of defense.

Im completely for everyone stepping up the landgrabbing. NBK was one of the main culprits when it came to who to blame for grabbing though.

1hit = 1retal
2+hits = Kill

:)

If enough established alliances do it then we might just have ourselves a game again.

If anyone wants to talk about it later to discuss universal grabbing rules that are acceptable, I am up for it. I do see a fair bit of positive feedback of bringing the old style of FFA back, and it is not hard to do.

My msn is

I'm happy to keep grabbing - although I don't think ESD, EIEIO, TKO, and PANLV would be overly happy to continue being on the receiving end of it....

Whoever is defenseless will get the most of the hits. I want them to grab us too!

Problem always becomes, the netting clans would prefer to sign pacts and ask for silly retal rules instead of actually just buying some D and preventing it from happening in the first place.

If 1/2 the countries I've grabbed this set had 1mil turrets, I wouldn't even have bothered. I really only grabbed them because it would have been insane to pass up the opportunity - especially when the self-farmers' main farmer is running 0 Def...

All it takes is for people to realise that no military isn't a winning strategy... It is now, but if everyone grabs more, not only are more ghost acres being made for server, making grabbing even better, but it stops skillness netting, making the real players the ones with the NW.

at a certain nw that damn explore button needs to disappear forcin them to look elsewhere

i'd like to grab the fluff outta llaar's countries but every clan I wind up being is pacted to his!

I think there in lies the problem K4F - no mil IS a winning strategy. Look at the top 10 every set....it's almost all self farmers who ran 0 def land farms for themselves.

whats with everyone having TKO in the list of alliances that are getting grabbed


2 hits from NBK
9 from LAE ( from an issue we had)
1 from EoEA

12 grabs in a reset isn't what u call getting grabbed lol

given the reset is a month in and its only 12 grabs... quit fluffing

this is what i refering to

we haven't been on the receiving end of alot of grabs by LAE which now3p was implying

Well, we are allied to you Warster :P

I think less no attack whatsoever alliances, and more just sort of general alliances.

And yes no mil is a winning strategy, and people have to do it to be competitive. But it isn't a winning strategy when we are busy grabbing instead of killing!

id never run low mil on a country i wasnt grabbing a lot

earlier there were some techers with very high land totals for the time who had low mil and were self farming

havnt spied them lately but the crazy thing about FFA is i feel less safe in countries based on how much defence they have but more about where there networth is relative to the countries doing the grabbing

so very small and very big countries with no/low mil are probably safer than say rank 200ish

True, but NW:Land ratio does matter when it comes to grabbing as well. Right now things are all messed up, with targets across all NW ranges with tons of land and no defenses. Had we been actively grabbing from start things woulda been balanced out sooner.

personally, I find it more profitable to have land thin countries with good mil as opposed to fat ones with no mil.


why?

cause assuming you CAN retal my landgrab, I still make out ahead of you. You can have your one country that has 300 million and 15 countries that are each one million nw from being farmed to fluff, I'd rather have 16 30 mil countries... who's the better netter then?

Well I know the solution!

Im gonna start grabbing tomorrow, 1 hit a day.

imo 480m is better than 315m

but its easier to get even higher networth moving land around

and if your landthin it means your always going to be behind unless you can make up in $/acre and less rebuild/mil costs

i got about 1.8b in 16 countries last set for example, obviously llaar was better at 10b or whatever

one reason topfeeding (or good grabbing or whatever you want to call it) is working in ffa at the moment is tech levels

if a 50k country has 20ppa bus&res thats 8m nw, whearas a grabbing farmer could have perhaps only 15ppa agri and less land and therefore could have way more jets, or enough jets and a similar amount of turrets

really the big land countries need to be at a higher nw level even if they dont have a lot of D so that anyone grabbing them is going to have more land

if you can change the average land of whos hitting you from say 20k to 30k its a lot less land loss

That is true, a 12k land country can be at same NW as a 50k land country, but have nearly double the military. Especially if the 50k land is tech heavy. But also since the 50k land country has more then 4x the land, he should be at least double the size of the smaller one, but that really isn't happening, so people are getting hit.

last reset from the time focus declared on imp until the day before the reset ended, all 16 of my countries carried over 3 bil cash on hand, and probably about 30 bil in tech, oil, mil, and food in them and I averaged something like 13k acres.

I'm ffa's flufftiest netter and I had I think a 22mil AWN

didn't self farm