OK, now were faced with yet another crazy dude legally owning a weapon going to the local high school and shooting everyone he sees.

If you're a liberal and/or a democrat, you will believe it is the fault of the weapon that fired the rounds through it's barrel.

If you're a conservative and/or a republican, you will believe that it was the guy pulling the trigger.

I think we need to wake up to a few facts here.

1. This did not happen in a vacuum
2. Somebody knew it was coming and informed the FBI about it
3. The FBI failed to act on it in time
4. The weapon was purchased legally
5. The right to do that comes directly from the constitution, which did not provide for mentally ill people, and the lack of detection, access to information, of these folks.
6. We need to correct and or establish a system to detect and refuse to sell weapons to such people.
7. This law needs to be enforced 100% of the time, not like the current laws which only seem to interfere with a legally authorized and perfectly capable gun owners rights.
8. The Governments operations need to actually work, not just have the appearance of working.
9. This means that we need to overhaul the civil service system in the nation as there are too many bureaucrats doing absolutely their absolute minimum amount of work to maintain their paychecks rather than the job they are being paid to do.
10. This will inevitably wind up as a bruising battle between the ensconced labor unions representing the federal governments workforce, that will oppose any changes allowing for their members to be evaluated and promoted or demoted based on a merit system

Politicians have no sack, thus will cave to whatever the union bosses say, and the American Public will fund it all.
IT's a circle jerk and the taxpayer is the pivot man for Chrissakes.

Did the Russians put you up to writing this post? Are you trynna to divide us? Iffin folks stopped taking sides on these issues, and came together, we might get something done :P

Think about your logic for a minute here:

You want to make a *law* to prevent people who don't follow the law.

The only thing you'll achieve is prevent those who follow the law to protect themselves.

It's pretty amazing to see people propose solutions and lay blame in almost every direction. Almost.

I'll give you a hint: https://www.motherjones.com/...ctims-carry-weapons-guns/

Likely, this kid was just a psychopath. You can blame guns or the FBI all you want but he'd have found a way to be a psychopath if he was in the first place. But I'm sure ostracizing him for his entire life didn't help. My question would be, what would have a bigger impact? Gun control? Or rooting bullying out of school? Maybe start screening the mental health of kids who have been bullied if you can't get rid of bullying.

You guys are seriously insane. The new law would provide better policies for the governments agencies tasked with evaluating potential gun customers rather than leaving it kinda/sorta half-assed like it is now.

Tighten up what we have rather than pile on more regulations than anyone can support.

Proposes a law not to sell weapons to insane people.
Calls anyone that disagrees with him insane.

Ps: I don't think anyone is for weapons being sold to mentally ill people. There are already laws in place for that. Your suggestion doesn't further the conversation.

fluff happens. Folks snap. Nobody is immune. People want to be able to formulate or read when this is bound to happen, or contain it from happening, but this is impossible to achieve. No matter the environment. You don't have to be mentally ill or victimized or a perpetrator. Just human. The institutions that housed folks like this in the past were deemed inhumane. Now there is 58+ fluffed up gender and identity designations that include other species for your drivers license birth certificate, ect...
People that need a controlled environment need to be behind walls in confined spaces. Not special laws that accommodate their needs at the expense of everyone else.
I for one don't want some sniveling fluff sucking bleeding heart soft talking shrink evaluating anything regarding me or my family or my constitutional rights.

Well in all honestly as a euro where gun laws are far more restricted and the psychiatric care in most countries is far more structured, controlled and government funded then in the US.... I keep being amazed by the endless discussion in the US about this subject.

We have far far less shootouts here especially gun incidents with so many victims are rarity here. I fail to graps how just looking at other western countries does not make a fairly large government like the US, research how we have better control on these type of incidents (usually with tons less law enforcement involved).

I'm not judging here just trying to understand how this is still a discussion within the US while so many other countries succeed much better at this stuff..... (Not like you need to do research on how to get it done or at least make an effort. It's a copy paste maybe with a little adjustment effort really).

Amen.

Who obeys laws in America?

New laws will only hamper law abiding citizens. Its like fishing. I have a lake near my house with no trespassing signs. I really would like to fish it, but the signs keep me from fishing it. On some days I see other people breaking the law by fishing it.

That's how gun control laws work.

you need to take me fishing sometime

There's laws that prevent people from killing other people. That's obviously not working for mentally ill people.
Why would would gun laws be any more effective?

Galveston piers at night. Tons of fish and they serve drinks.

if getting a gun legally isnt in the cards, then one will get the gun illegally, or go to other measures such as making bombs instead.

they will do what they want to do no matter what. laws just make legally responsible citizens more defenseless if it becomes more of a pain to get a gun.

Wow. Something we can agree on. Even the columbine shooters had pipe bombs.

How about you give it 30 years until you have the same demographics as the US then compare crime problems? Not trying to make the retarded alt-right argument.... but comparing mostly homogeneous populations in Europe to the US is going to give you different results, obviously. The fact that crime rates have been dropping in the US for years is actually miraculous and if you want to compare Europe... well, violent crimes are on the rise in most places, fire arm crimes went up in the UK after the firearm ban, etc etc. If you look at places in Canada, the more diverse areas have higher crime, generally.

European's are going to be copying the American model before long because it is slowly but surely working.

Why is this on AT?

Why ask why?

I refuse to try Bud Dry

that's uncalled for.

How come this is a non issue in the rest of the world?

The rest of the civilized world certainly has a lot to say about it. fluffholes don't give two fluffs.
However, most of Asia, Africa, Europe, Middle East, would disagree. They all outshine the USA in every facet of violence and crimes. Especially the mass slaughtering of children. At a rate that good folks disarmed in a handful of countries only to navigate the same problems.
So you're not very informed or just a troll. Either way you're full of fluff.

So the US is a 3rd world country? here i thought it was you non underwear changing people who thought the US was the (written like a republican after this) bestest county evah

i don't know about non underwear. The fluff is that? I'll fly anyone from anywhere to San Francisco or the likes to see a modern city regress into third world living conditions. You can also see what socialism and liberal leadership as done to one of the biggest economies in the world. (California)
*you can not be from a fluffhole country to take my offer*

Why can't you do both, and fully fund public health care, good mental health programs, and public education, all while implementing controls like better screening for gun purchases, implementing gun buyback programs, and issuing firearms licenses?

</Canadian>

First mental health in America is enabling the sick to coexist with regular folks. For example, extending kids the right to define their biological make up ignoring all science and fact in an elementary school level. 58+ legally accepted genders. I'm supposed to rely on these healthcare professionals to diagnose threats that could impact someone's rights defined in the USA constitution under their science? No fluffin way. I would never hand the keys to my car to a deaf mute retard and expect a good outcome.
Then we are supposed to fund a public buy back of weapons? What a waste of money! How about non Americans buy them from the fools that will sell and you can do whatever the fluff you want with them.
The license to buy a firearm is the background check done at a national level. Locals governments do their own check to buy that varies.
Supposedly the world distrusts the USA gov and even hates it yet advocates for fluff that hurts Americas?
I think folks just like to fluff and moan. Stick their noses where they don't belong.

The actual research being done in biology by trained professionals does not support your position with regard to sex, gender, or mental health.

This thread does not belong in this forum. It has nothing to do with the Alliance Server.

Have you read the actual research?

That's rhetorical.

I plan on buying an AR before i cant anymore.

It was settled long ago. Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. Naturally there are some wobblers, but few. Of coarse there are many different examples of mental illness, this being just one highlighting the quackery you call science.

Canada is a tenth of their population? If America pays our defense for us, and we spend 228 billion on health care, then they are 2.2 trillion dollars for health care added to them also paying the world's way?

I am poor and you ate not. You have stake in this. Welcome to canada, but a small portion of your stake is my stake.

My partial ownership? Assholes aren't allowed to ban me.

Tell him.

Any of you ever go down to the POLICE station in your own town? Just go down and see if you can just walk in and go in the doors that you can see from the lobby.

You will find that they are all locked and electric controled by the person behind the bullet proof glass in the lobby. And the funny part is every one there is wearing a gun and yet they have bullet proof glass locked doors and all have guns.

EVER WONDER WHY THAT IS? THEY DO NOT TRUST ANYONE EITHER>

WHY ARE ALL THE SCHOOLS NOT THAT WAY ALSO?

CALL YOUR SCHOOL BOARD CALL THE MAYOR OF YOUR CITY AND THE GOVERNOR OF YOUR STATE AND ASK HIM WHY THAT IS?

AND IF YOU DON NOT GET THE ANSWER YOU WANTED FIRE THEM AND HIRE SOME ONE WHO GIVES A SHYT>

Actually, there are a number of hormones that interact within the body that govern the formation of genitalia. Their presence or absence alters when and how they appear. Newer research is discovering that similar hormonal differences also affect brain development.

Of course, if one is to believe they know more than authorities in the field and that the peer-review model of research is flawed, then what are we doing here? If we all already know everything, then this is not a conversation. Its just people yelling past one another.

As this thread has nothing to do with alliances and does not involve any form of meaningful conversation, it has no business being on AT. This needs to be moved to the appropriate forum before it devolves further and requires closing.

Heston I think its scary that you and mr trump allows babies to be born after 9 months

seriously scary! Honestly what America needs the most is better education so the next generation has a better understanding then heston and mr trump does

fluff!

babies come after 10 months actually.....

So if people start crowd plowing with vehicles they,ll ban them too?🤔

Good point! Facts are fluff. When I evolve into a Swedish white guy with white pants and a pink polo with slip on shoes and no socks, I'll take a stab at one of them fellers with a new mangina. I think it's gonna take many many many generations to get there tho. By then you all will be marrying transgender centaurs with penis boobs and we will still be science denying uneducated bigots...

yeah because your opinion is more important then people being happy, except when it comes to guns because then its more important that yer happy then other peoples opinion its intresting that a guy whos so against gov rule is so anti gay anti abortions etc

fun fluff

I wouldn't call that community happy. With a suicide rate higher than Jews in a concentration camp. That's saying a lot. What you have is enabling. It's no different than a mother breastfeeding her teenager since birth and telling him/her it's normal. We would never tell someone that believes in santa that santa doesn't exist. Their happiness is at stake right?
I wouldn't say anti government, I just hate liberal democrats, which are the exact same around the globe.
This IS gun politics today in the USA. Mental illness is real and ignored. fluff is fluffed up.

Difference is guns are made to kill, vehicles are made for transportation.

Of course it is. Reminds me of the Rotherham scandal where the reporter almost didn't follow up on the story because he didn't want to upset people. Even Swedish scientists admit that sex changes don't actually treat the underlying conditions that lead to high suicide rates and with "regret" surgeries on the rise and an epidemic level suicide rate maybe the solution is to actually treat the condition rather than messing with hormones etc of younger and younger children who aren't capable of being out of arm's reach of their parents in a supermarket let alone making a life changing decision whose implications they can't even begin to understand.

Also, I'm 100% for any adult that wants to do it to go ahead. I'd cheer on Caitlyn Jenner if she wasn't a murderer. But promoting it for impressionable children instead of treating a very serious condition is where I draw the line. You wouldn't tell a depressed kid the best way to make him less suicidal is to wear a clown costume everywhere. You'd get him the help he needs.

its not being promoted here either but if my son wants to wear a pink shirt to school or play with dolls he can etc i really dont get how thats your or hestons business at all what or how poeple dress or call themselves

If worrying about other people's mental health is none of my business, then what is the argument for universal healthcare again?

It's absolutely non of my business, I don't want to ever be a part of any of that fluff. Unfortunately, this quackery, has reached the voting booth, school curriculum , and my wallet, by force! Not to mention the ripple effect it has on innocent people surrounding the issue, on both sides , while you fluffs promote. The people that matter being children. I think folks that fight biology are dangerous and unfit to care for a goldfish.

The silver lining in California in regards to identity disorders in school is that when you get officially put on paper with one, you lose the ability to serve your country in the military, will never get a job as a law enforcement officer. You essentially have the same rights as a felon, except you are able to vote.
Imagine that, liberal democrats feeding off the most vulnerable people to strip away their rights..... dismantle fluff they hate.

IMO the real issue here is mental illness and lack of treating it. Complicated issues.

It did sound like there were a lot of warning signs, that were even reported.

This country is so messed up.

Even if all the guns on earth vanished, you`ll still have mentally ill or deranged and unstable persons finding a way to mass murder people. Also the media needs to stop glorifying the act, no pun intended, but its making people want to go out with a bang sort a speak.

There's many angles of debate on the issue of gun laws but I think there should at the very least be some discussion in raising the legal age of purchasing an AR-style rifle.

If I'm not mistaken, in order to purchase a pistol (from a non-private seller) in Florida, you have to be 21.
Unfortunately, ARs fall into a category of "rifle" which you are allowed to purchase at 18. I don't believe a teenager should be able to purchase an AR style weapon on their own. I would support the idea if they created a new category for ARs and raised the purchasing age, but leave other rifles alone. I grew up in a conservative family and received my first hunting rifle (bolt action) at age 13; however, I am leaning towards the left on this issue.

You can make the age limit 30 and people (kids) will still get them just like cigarettes and alcohol. We're just going to have't get Medieval on people's asses!

You can't stop all of them, but it would eliminate some, which is all that matters.