I don't think you can blame the people of America for the death tolls. Personally, I'm not much for that type of shaming. At least not yet. First of your leaders have given a lot of sprawling advice. Trump for instance unveiled a spectacularily well thought out plan(https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/) to reopen your economy and then he went on to publically shame the governors that followed that plan and hailed the ones that opened up faster than his plan suggested.
Mixed messaging from states, municipies and federal level has caused a lot of issues as well. Even if there wouldnt be direct conflicts between mayors and governors or governors and the president it would still be a problem to have many voices that keep saying different things.
These issues are not unique to USA tho, and I think theres a lot more to the great variation in deaths per capita than the response:

Look at qatar with 193 deaths and 116765 total cases, according to worldometer. Thats 0.165% case fatality rate. The infection fatality rate is higher than that in most western countries.

Further, antibody cohorts from man sub-saharan countries show IFRs which even if adjusted for demographics is about one order of magnitude lower than european and american numbers:
https://www.medrxiv.org/...07.27.20162693v1.full.pdf
https://www.medrxiv.org/...07.30.20164970v2.full.pdf
https://clubofmozambique.com/...avirus-antibodies-167192/

Theres clearly more to the death tolls than just blaming people or blaming leaders for everything. I think that is just our hubris to suggest everything is about that. Several factors vary between countries other than their demographics or overall health levels. Some have suggested genetics play a part but people of african decent dying in Europe and USA and NOT dying in Africa speaks loudly against that.

What is comming up lately is the T-cell mediated immunity which we know varied a lot from country to country, and we know it matters. Over the next few months that is what Im most keen to get more information on.
Here is a few teasers about T-cell mediated immunity:
-SARS-CoV1 T-cell activity persists for decades.(which makes it very likely that SARS-CoV2 T-cell activity does as well)
-Acute phase SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells display high cytotoxic activity
-T-cell activity correlated with various clinical markers of disease severity
-SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells were detectable in antibody-seronegative family members of people who had tested positive and individuals with a history of asymptomatic or mild COVID-19(What does this mean? it can either mean that SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells protected them from infection, or that they got the virus and didnt get symptoms or antibodies, either of which is absolutely amazing news; in the first case it means far more people are immune than the 5-25% of people who have already had the virus or it can mean that all those people with T-cell activity from before are immune to severe covid19 and death from it, which means that no matter what, the virus will run out of people it can be fatal to way faster than we have anticipated)

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2020.08.017
----

-UNEXPOSED INDIVIDUALS HAVE SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Seriously, they do! Blood donated several years before this pandemic was tested for T-cell activity and it was found in this cohort. This has been done by at least a dozen groups of scientists all over the world, each finding T-cell activity in blood that comes from donors that could never have been in contact with SARS-CoV2. This means that a large portion of the population of the world, and possibly you but quite surely some of the people you hold dear, will have a protection from this virus even before fighting the infection. If it means they are immune or if it means they will be take it like a common cold and have no risk of getting hospitalized we don't know yet. But regardless, it is VERY GOOD news.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2020.05.015

This is clearly a vast area we need more information about, the first started comming in May, and now new papers are published every day on the subject. And its pretty much all good news, both for vaccine mediated and disease mediated herd immunity, as 20-60% of all those cohorts studied(very varied) are already protected somehow, probably due to cross-immunity from another coronavirusinfection they've had.
This heterogenity in T cell activity needs to be understood before we can blame the american/swedish/Italian people or leaders for high death tolls and likewise we need to hold off on hailing New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan and South Korea for their success, which could easily be largely due to "luck" with low or high levels of pre-pandemic T Cell activity, for all we know so far.

You forget we have over 300m people and nobody wants to stay home, yes this is our fault, we aren't helping the situation, the government can only do so much.

To add to gerdler post... https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1

No one should need to stay home. You got great nature, just as we do. And if you spread out perfectly you each get about 15 meters between yourselves in which setting the reproduction ratio becomes infinitessimal. :)

I don't think I have enjoyed nature any year more than this one, and Im an outdoorsy type person normally.

Tell that to the rioters and block party idiots :-/

Real question. Do people still think there are riots? That lasted like 2 days in most cities. They just spooking you country folk with stock footage these days.

I don't think, I know they are every night in Portland and Seattle, of course you won't see that on MSM, but I digress.

Portland was at peace for a while aside from a 1 block area around the courthouse. It didnt last but that was in there. It's been pretty calm since federal troops withdrew from what I hear. My best friend lives there and said it was hardly noticeable at the time. Chaz was a bit of a fluffshow tho haha.

Minneap was probably worse than both but again that was, you know, 2 weeks tops. Kind of weird it is a focus to me. Like. Random groups of 12 people do dumb fluff in every city every day. RARELY makes MSM. fluff, 12 people were in a shootout a week ago. We had a dozen kids rampage a CVS a few days ago to steal fluff. It's part of living in the hood. Weird people care suddenly when they can associate with protests. Probably just a way to degrade to movement. *sigh*

That's interesting, I go to Portland every Monday and it's still a fluff show, in fact last weekend the Antifa fluffs pulled out a couple out of their car and beat the male to death, he died in the hospital on Monday, there are shootings in the area they took over almost every night, tell your "friend" he's full of fluff.

Yesterday...
https://youtu.be/szO9JWrz3f8

I didn't read this thread.

I had COVID back in Febuary. Was told I had a respiratory flu. I tested positive for antibodies 2 months later.

I was on my ass for 3 days, then fine.

Not sure what the merits are for destroying our economy for a common virus with a more than 99% survival rate are.

What do I know.

Nice, glad you survived, many family members from my girlfriend side had it as well and nobody was hospitalized, all ages some with diabetes 🤷

You guys do pandemics so much better than us. fluff.

This is number 3 on my list of Covid-greatest hits, well not this video in itself but the ones showing similar scenes!

#2 is the collage of italian mayors telling people that they will die if they walk on the empty beach instead of stay in their houses lol.

#1 is still the Chinese disinfectant spraying robot that sprays that poor Wuhanite with something that was probably unpleasant if not toxic. When I saw that video I felt and knew what I had been trying to supress for the past decade or so; that China will soon rule the world.
I mean, technologically, that robot was about as impressive as a CD-rom in 2020. The whole idea of curing an epidemic by spraying the street with disinfectant is ofc laughable. What impresses me to the point that my goosebumps get goosebumps is that somehow this machinery passed all bureaucratic obstacles and was put in use despite all its flaws and was even filmed for propaganda purposes(while completely failing to do a proper job). Unthinkable here, unthinkable in the US, thats why we have no chance.
By the time anyone else have decided to send a person to orbit Mars, China will have a colony, if they even care about it.

Ohh and yeah I still think China is the Nazi Germany of our time. They are only going slower with the ethnic cleansings and
the acquisition of Lebensraum allowing them to do worse before anyone reacts. It's not that I want China to win, I just observe their competetive advantage.

Tear gas teddy and portland is sort of an anomaly tho. Their mayor used tear gas daily and as we saw in Philly, when you gas your citizens it sorta inspires violence. The following day was the biggest protest at like 31,000 people here. Once the city apologized it calmed back down to 4 or 5000 everyday. More like 500-1000 now.

When you repeatedly gas your citizens it tends to give people pause. I think tear gas Teddy kinda brought that situation in Portland on himself with a gross misuse of less lethal munitions early on in the protests.

The police in Seattle and Portland have been under stand down orders for months now, that excuse is bullfluff. There's absolutely no reason nor excuse to pull people that want to go home or work out of their vehicle and beat them to death, if you think otherwise then you're a murderous thug like those fluff bags.

We do pandemics better than anyone! We test more than anyone! We also have the most deaths than anyone. (except for the lying bastards in China, no fluffing way their numbers are legit. Don't even go there Gerdler!)

Yeah. Hopefully anyone who even like punches someone else gets charged with assault. I mean...that's arguably the point of this whole thing, right? Haha. Let's not lose sight of that. This is about people getting charged with murder when they murder someone. Hopefully those kids do hard time. That sould be ubiquitous. There's a murder every 30 minutes in this country and in an ideal scenario, they are all brought to justice. Do I think it's a little disgusting that both sides use murders to make their point? A bit yeah. It's using an anomaly scenario to describe a systemic issue. And people have an emotional reaction to the singular issue instead of looking at the broader scope of what is being discussed. It's not like LOTS of people were beaten to death. A couple of sick fluffs killed a guy. I'm sure a guy who talks about a disease only killing like 1 or 0.5% of people can surely understand the percentage of motorists who were killed by the riots. It's probably closer to the percentage of mail in voting fraud that happens in an election at 0.0005%. At least, I'm certain covid's mortality rate is higher than driving in Portland. In a normal world you wouldn't give a fluff about a murder on my block or that one. At least, it seems, the killers has been arrested. Hopefully we get the same for Breonna Taylor and every other person who has been violently attacked. I feel like that should be the goal posts here. And I'd protest on behalf of either family to see their killers brought to justice if I believed raising awareness would help see that thru. Fortunately only one of their killers is sitting on the beach right now. And so I will repeat her name. Breonna Taylor.

I did watch the Proud Boys vs Antifa showdown from last night tho. I've never seen so many grown white men in helmets. Good lord. I'm so wholeheartedly embarrassed for anyone who consciously makes the decision to put on a helmet, grab a firm object, and go to battle with a wooden shield that says freedom on it. What the serious fluff is wrong with the far left and right? They all started wearing helmets...we used to make fun of kids who wore those haha.

Far right be like:

"I love you lady, but these goddamed ANTEEEFA ruinin' my whole ass town. Goddamn graffiti on Thomas ass Jefferson. Imma teach these Black Lives Matter fluffheads what WHHHHITE AMERIKKKA MEANS!!!!!"

*grabs helmet*



Far left be like:

"Bro, I went to do yoga and I was so stoned I forgot where I was going but then like, I started painting a 300 year old wall and someone tried to stop me bro. And he said like, my life didn't matter or something. Let's show them this OUUUUURRRRR CIIIITTTTYYYYY"

*grabs helmet*

It was funny and disturbing for sure, that's why I posted on that video, "Idiots, all of them"