Self- Missiling.

I've seen threads on here in previous sets about someone who is willing to put up a country for everyone to use as a EM missile dump.

Obviously, EM's are about as useful as tits on a boar hog, but it begs the question..... Is it any more or less "ethical" to set aside one of your countries to rid yourself of EM's in order to gain CM's and NM"s? Or to avail yourself of another player's missile dump a la land-trading?

Ostensibly the reasoning behind the EM dump is to better equip one's countries to be more effective in war. Like self-farming is to net gainers.

Discuss.

BTW.. Anyone running a missile dump this set? That's not running one because they're in a war, that is?


:P

i think the wars came too fast this set for missile dump to be set up. :P

I think its fine. I mean logically if you don't want a missile you should be able to just destroy it. Since that option is not there, might as well fire it. Like if you have too much land and want to drop some you can.

EM are useful IMO... i don't know why its so popular to throw them away

EMs have a use, but spies are better. i'd rather get more CMs and win the SPAL battle than have EMs or NMs.

You can fire off 15 EMs at someone, and do as much actual damage as 2 CD's and 7 Demos. Sure your ops might fail, but your missiles can get shot down too.

EMs are useless for anything other then an inferior demo pretty much. If a dude had 0 SDI, would be better off firing 15 nukes at him instead...

True, but self-missiling with your EM's isn't the same thing as dropping land. One doesn't normally drop land to gain networth over an entire reset but might self-missile every time he gets a n EM to try and get a CM or NM that is more advantageous in war.

not so much i think a missle dump is more a service to the entire server. i dont want those damn stinkin EM's and NM's if im gonna go to war. i want as many chems as posible. if there wasnt a public dump i would just fire them at countries that look abandoned. save the trouble of potentially harming a new player

One can get super high land and gain income, then enter a war and drop half of it, to double your spal and tech effectiveness. Which arguably gives you a far greater advantage in a war then a few extra chems.

I don't disagree Pain. All I'm saying is that using a missile dump is no different than self farming at the base level. Both are practiced to enhance performance.

Obviously, self farming can be taken to extremes that missile dumping cannot, but......

Check my last response to Pain. It sort of agrees with the point your're making. Nonetheless, advantage is advantage. The glaring difference is that there's no way for me to "top feed" you out of those extra nukes and chems you get by missile dumping without doing something that's an immediate act of war.

You can fire missiles at whoever you want with the same effectiveness as shooting it at yourself. Self farming, by no stretch of any logic can you do that to other people.

And don't tell me you cant find a target to dump missiles on :P

I KNOW I can find a target to dump missiles on. Just like I know I could comb the news and farm targets that I know are going to be killed.

The difference is that if I farm someone who hit you 6 times and I take that land, you're gonna come after me.

What - I'd - likely do is negotiate some deals with players who have fat countries. I'd give them tech alliances, FA (if not at war) or some other equitable trade in exchange for land.

BTW... Anyone who has some fatties that might wanna work out a deal.......

If you came to an agreement with someone who wasn't self farming, and offered to pay them for land, I would say that is a pretty clever idea, and I would encourage it.

That would give birth to a new breed of country - the rep land farmer. Just explores and sells land, people can pay a certain amount per grab, and everyone ends up happy. Would take a while to figure out how much an acre would be worth, but that is increasing player interaction. My arguement against self farming was it was decreasing player interaction.

On the base level, I fully agree with Dragon. If you want to claim that self-farming isn't really an intended consequence of the server, the best argument for this is that you should play each country to the best of your ability--that you shouldn't subjugate some of your countries for the betterment of others.

Picking out one country to shoot missiles at is still subjugating one of your countries.

There are other arguments of course, like K4F's player interaction argument, but if you're claiming that self-farming is wrong because you shouldn't attack one of your own countries, then you shouldn't take advantage of a missile dump either.

I actually DID this back in the early days of ESD in the old FFA. I dunno if you remember DaBears, but he was in Takers, and we worked out a deal where He let me hit each of his countries 3 times every 3 days in exchange for Tech, FA, etc.

I like that idea much more then self farming, I will consider it a 100% legit way of gaining land. Even better then landgrabbing cause everyone wins.

Right, but it's not like you can gain 300 CM's a day by using a missile dump. I have to be honest there. Self-farming is essentially unlimited and unbalanced versus missile dumping despite the FACT that the principle is the same.

Fair point, but ultimately, there's a reason why all of the excuses people have are silly:

1) You're subjugating one country (or more): Missile dumps do the same.
2) You're limited player interaction: So does going all-explore.
3) Self-farming is essentially unlimited: Doesn't mean everyone else can't do it too or landgrab netters who do practice it.

I really don't care. In fact, in the past, I've been anti self-farming, but I ultimately feel that the people who are self-righteous about how self-farming is wrong are generally people that self-farming doesn't affect them much, since they're mostly war clans. What right do they have to tell me how I should play the game? War clans already ultimately have too much power to dictate how others play the game as it is considering they can declare war on a netting clan at any time for any reason by the way we currently play, whereas a netting clan can't declare a netting war and get left alone. So war clans can ALREADY tell me how I should play the game by declaring war on me. Why should they have the right to tell me how to play when we're at peace? Screw that. If war clans are going to continue to dictate how I get to play this game, I'd prefer to just walk away.

Yay you. That's where this game is headed. Even Stevie Wonder can see it.

wtf, you're going to tell me when u LG me, i cant NM your land away?

If netting clans are going to continue to dictate how I get to play this game, I'd prefer to just walk away.

see how it works? :P

Yeah, well that's not the case though because you have the ability to push people around because you can. I'd like to see YOU on the short end of the stick and see what you had to say then.

fluff.

Meh, everytime we tried to net we were given the short end of the stick :P
Our statements are still pretty much the same. When I can go for a whole set without being LG'ed once, even though I have a ton more land then most of the people around me, I get bored. So if you are gonna self farm, have a few countries out and about grabbing, making things fun, and I would be far less likely to comment.

So, let's make a deal. What can I trade you for some of that NBK land :P

Oh, right now most of the NBK land is radioactive :P Although I am not the land selling type person, I would be more then willing to buy however.

Popcom: You're in a war clan. You obviously like to war. You've gotten to war every set (I assume anyway, since NBK has warred every set).

What if for the next 3 sets, you were forced to netgain, and if you slacked off and didn't put the effort forth to succeed, you were called a coward or your dedication was questioned?

That's what happened to netting clans. If a netting clan acts irresponsibly, they deserve to be warred. That's obvious. However, if a clan does nothing to provoke another clan and gets declared on, this is EXACTLY what happens. If PANLV folded up and decided to self-delete or leave our countries to die, we'd be criticized for not fighting back, but ultimately, I play this game because I like to netgain with my countries. I enjoy a good war every now and again, and in fact, so far, am enjoying this war with you guys at NBK, despite the fact that I'd still rather be netgaining. However, if I'm going to be forced to war set after set just because other people feel they have the right to force their style of play upon me, then hell yes I'm out of here. This is still ultimately entertainment and if it stops being entertaining, then why am I wasting time here?

You're missing the point, Twain. NBK doesn't care about fair play, they care about dominating the server and imposing their will until they drive the game out of existence.

sorry to say it Dragon but thats the way the game is... Netgainers can't stand war and not set after set, where as killers in most cases can put up with a couple of sets of not much action...

unless you go back to trying to run a one/two man tag again it is very difficult to netgain in this server...

TKO on the other hand have seemed to do a good job avoiding the random DOW's....

BTW im not saying its right for WC's to just DOW a netting alliance either...

No worries, mate. I know what this server has become. It's all good. I just don't see any longevity with the prevailing attitudes.

Completely wrong if you know anything about NBK Dragon... Didn't realised you were still pissed off at us for that one landgrab 3 months ago.

NBK's rules are fair, and we follow them, they are similar to all the rules other clans have as well. Name the last clan that was pushed around, other then a few landgrabs within our landgrab limit?

I just personally think you guys are only interested in imposing your will on the server because you can.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, and you should really rethink this whole thing before you destroy the server.

The really weird thing is that when Swirve ditched FFA in 2004, I actually ended with NBK as great friends. Time changes things, I guess.

I think you just don't really know anything of whats going on Dragon.
If I recall, it was you who self Deleted/Quit because of a single landgrab.....

As for clans trying to push other clans around, wake up. Do you even think for a second that NBK is leading that charge, or even close in it?

Or fire off EM at big countries to bring down SDI before cheming.

it works but it's an inefficient use of turns.

If you fired say 100 cruises at someone, his SDI would go from say 50% to 40%... So you would use 100 cruises to save 8 chems, which you would have had anyway, had you burnt cruises earlier :P

I don't know what NBK's motivations are, and I'm not going to speculate. I just think it's crappy that ultimately, as someone who wants to netgain, I'm pretty much at the mercy of war clans' desires.

I used to run TIE in the old FFA and I remember time after time when people targeted us. Back then, we were probably the single cleanest clan as far as policy. We didn't self-farm, we didn't run more than 15 (even though most other clans were putting up 2-3k countries) and I'll be honest, I purposefully acted about as meek as possible so that I wouldn't start any fights. This didn't work. We had as many sets where we were tag-killed as we did successful netting sets.

In the new FFA, I've had a similar experience. I had a solid netting set with LaE the first set, left LaE and put my countries in the TIE tag in set 2 with the whole cheating thing that occurred and since have been with PANLV. In now 5 sets with PANLV, we've had one that was war-free. Admittedly, last set was one of those sets where as a netting clan, we made some choices that had a high probability of war, but in the first two wars, we really did nothing to bring ourselves to the attention of the people we warred (SoF/IMP, NBK) and this set, all we did was slow down on the self-farming and set ourselves up, because we thought Swords or IMP might come after us as a follow-up from last set, and yet it's neither of those we're at war with.

Ultimately, I'll fight through this war and like I said, on some level, I enjoy wars from time to time, but ultimately, I'm at a spot right now where I don't have a lot of free time to play this game, being a full-time H.S. Language Arts teacher with a wife who is 8 mos. pregnant. If I can play the game the way I want and have fun doing it, then I'll continue to play. If I'm going to have clans dictating that I have to war, then ultimately, it takes more time and is less fun, and if that's the way it's going to be, then I'd rather dedicate time to other pursuits in my life.

Ultimately, the point is if you're in a war clan and there's no one that's antagonized you, either netgain or find another clan that likes to war and fight them, because again, when you declare on a netgaining clan for no reason, you're basically telling us that you're far more important than us and what we want doesn't matter.

You always go back to that. Yes, I deleted my countries because NBK decided to make a point of punishing small self farmers. I decided that rather than allow you to dictate to me how I should play the game, that I would just quit playing.

Is that your intent, and if so, why? I certainly understand that NBK's fluffs are massive and that our butt holes are not only small but lacking in moisture to receive your huge tools.

I don't know why you even respond because this server largely runs the way NBK wants it to. Congratufluffulations.

i seem to remember it being 1 LG on a country with like 100k acres...

34k acres actually pop.

We didnt make a point of punishing self farmers Dragon, that is why all this drama happened. We did maybe 5 grabs in a week on big targets, and all that crying happened.

You want the server to run your way, and that is, if you self farm, you are somehow immune from the outside world.

ironic that ppl QQ about the game not running there way, but then they want others to play the way they say lol

If it was a LG on one 100k acre country, it sure as hell wasn't ESD. You sons of fluffes sent a jetter against a 35K acre country that could not possibly have defended based on its size.

Why? Because I simply said that I could understand how self farming could be a viable strategy in FFA considering the lack of available targets and that ESD might dare to adopt the strategy.

Don't give me your fluffing bullfluff, popcom. You know what you did, why you did it, and will continue to do so until you kill the FFA server.

fluff you.

"If it was a LG on one 100k acre country, it sure as hell wasn't ESD. You sons of fluffes sent a jetter against a 35K acre country that could not possibly have defended based on its size."

Wrong again Dragon. First of all it was not a jetter.... That is easy to prove. It had a lot more turrets then jets. Second of all, it was not you had no chance to defend yourself.... Between the food captured and the 130k tech obtained, that earned me enough money to pay for over half the army used to hit you, so about 6x my losses.

As for my proof of what country I used, just ask Pan, they remember trying to do their retal :)

lol, well, I can't speak for everyone in PAN, but while this thread goes the direction of NBK v. Dragon, I think I'll stay clear of commenting.

If this thread steers back towards the original direction (or I guess, more realistically, the direction I pushed it in), I'll start up again.

As for NBK attacking people randomly, and never being on the short end of the stick...

Set 1 -> AoDt declared war on NBK
Set 2 -> AoDT AND Syn declared war on NBK
Set 3 -> AoDT with Syn members tagged AoDT declared war on NBK
Set 4 -> NBK killed AoDT
Set 5 -> NBK declared war on Pan
Set 6 -> SoF was going to attack NBK, so we had to hit first
Set 7 -> NBK declared war on Focus and Pan

In almost everycase, war was brought to us. Not NBK going out of its way to kill innocent people.

ESD NEVER had a country over 35K acres when NBK decided to make an example of what NBK felt to be unacceptable play.

You sons of fluffes can argue this any way you want and twist your story to something that suits your self justification, but the truth is that you lacked the balls to rape larger clans doing the same things.

Pussies.

Ignoring the whole Dragon drama Twain, we did offer you fellows an enforced netting war, as long as no self farming was involved. You all voted that down, if it was truly just netting then why not? If you are up for one at some point, let us know. Pretty much will have to be enforced cause as soon as we net someone is gonna try to kill us.
We didn't start this looking to kill, but everytime we stop killing someone wants to prove themselves and tries to kill us.

Yes, let's ignore the "Dragon Drama" because we'd not want to admit that we think we can dictate how the game should be played based on our ability to eliminate any opposition to it.