Going to prove you aren't out to ruin the server?

Firstly, before I begin let me preface this by making it clear where I stand. I am a sol member, nothing more. What Sol's leadership does in response to anything in this post or otherwise is beyond the purview of what I can control. Yes, my country is still alive (come kill it please, I enjoy walling maybe I can beat my old records). I'm just back this restart after about a year and have very little knowledge of the server politics (and don't care to read all of AT either). What I do know however is the nature of this game, and that the current politics are making the game predictable and boring, in the words of some, ruining the game.

Hanlong you +1'd my post on aponics thread, essentially attempting to say you want to improve the server instead of ruining it, so here's my take and my advice as such. Maybe people here will listen and things will change (although I doubt it).

That said, lets look at some numbers;

-SoL countries over 1m: 15/49 ~25% (I ignored the cowards in Vac mode, not like they matter)
-LaF countries UNDER 1m: 5/91 ~6%

Now if you're going for a tag kill great, hurry it up and do it already. Its more apparent that you want to make SoL your land farm for the rest of the set (which is simply a way to ruin the game).

Why do I say this? Looking at the news for the 16 original SoL countries left.
PS/SS (Farming Runs) 7
AB (Wasted Turn Runs) 3
Missile Dumps (For the sake of Missiles) 1 EM
Kill Attempts 3 + 10 (kills In the last 24hrs)

Should I add in the hits on restarts now? You're spending close to the same amount of time farming/crippling (when not needed) as you are killing, if you're goal is honestly a tag kill, teach your war dept how to do it right and use your size to plow through the remaining living solers, you've got the numbers for the turns and the size to waste the resources breaking it down.

Now if your goal is really what you said it was to prevent sol from ruining your netting set, you've done that already. Approach SoL and offer a CF, farm them for a day to get your free land as a reward to hopefully make up for your time lost to net.

Why do it now before a tag kill? Because as opposed to wrecking-balling them as you easily can with sheer size, you make a move for the better as opposed to the past. Sol's few originals allow them to still have tag protection and preform retals, and to even have a war with someone else later in the set if they actually want to. You've said you hit them to prevent them from ruining your netting, which is funny because in turn you ruin your own netting. But at this point, they can't ruin your netting anymore.

SoL's past the point of being able to bring in help if they've got any to actually bring in *shrug*

As I said in the other thread, to better the server...
Because of LaF's size they shouldn't be FSing anyone (except maybe sof I'd need to look at the numbers more closely) and should be taking a risk of getting fs'ed as opposed to pre-empting everything.
Guilds should be looking for fewer pacts as opposed to more pacts and larger coalitions (which form to defend against larger enemies)
One large enemy pacted to another in the classic earth Dp style leads to large groups forming against them (SoF and LaF are dp's?) Its the very history of the politics that make this game so rigid, you've got to shake things up, A LOT and everyone has to be willing to play ball.

Unfortunately If you really want to improve the game the person or people who step up to change it are going to have to take risks, and are likely to get kicked in the gut a few times until they can get the point across.

+1

I agree with everything you said, but judging by last resets war with MD, I wouldn't hold my breath for a quick tagkill.

SoF finished last set with 49 members. We are currently at 72. LAF has also grown by 10 members since last set.

We are only the 2 largest alliances now because SoF has grown. Prior to this set SoF was ranked 6th in terms of membership.

Only addressing one of your minor points ;)

MD/LaF cf'd on the day(i believe within minutes?) of md requesting a cf.

Grabbing during war is nothing new, nor is ABing. It isn't being done on a full scale, any properly run war over the past 10 years will contain everything you listed above.

If you're still alive today, it's due to other countries being better than yours during the FS, or your name is Dragon.

If I was LaF I wouldn't cf SoL.

Last time SoL requested a cf from LaF (and got it) and threatened to disband SoL if they didn't, Makinso was in another room plotting an offensive alliance against LaF.

Also, Dagga let it be known that war doesn't make SoL lose members, so all is fine.

I know, but sometimes it pays to be the bigger man :).

If, politically, it is a better move to continue the war, by all means, do so. Continuing wars just to pummel the opposite side and farm the crap out of them, all you're doing is creating bad blood with the regular members of the other side, some of which (or most in the MD case) hold little ill will towards you at this point.

Re Goku: Amusing, You completely grazed over the point and justified it in that its nothing new. The point is its a waste of turns, rein it in and perform like you should in a war. When you're winning and able to break everything on gods green earth theres no reason to AB. As for Grabbing, Yes. Wonderful but when you're hitting original countries into DR you're doing something wrong.

As for better countries, No need to judge on that, I know where I stand, When you figure it out let me know.

Re Flamey: I don't necessarily disagree with you, however the point is to better the server. If you don't trust sol's leadership then make that part of the cf terms. If you don't trust that it will happen that's another story all together. The end all be all here is make it SoL's mistake by being reasonable and making a move for bettering. Or just come out and admit that you just want a repeat performance of last set and picked sol to be your land farm. SoF did it right, they beat PDM into the ground then CF'ed instead of milking the situation for land and "netting".

We disagree over it being a waste of turns.

AB'ing is mainly for those who can't make warchats or showed up late, I'll take lowered production over turn rot any day. You have a very narrow minded approach to how to run a war.

I have a very effective mind in how to run a war. Instead of saying chats are at this time and this time. People can't make that time. Now if you're hyperactive as a guild like you claim to be from DR camping and what not to net well, why not inspire people to idle on IRC and run chats very time you get 600-700 turns? That said, since you've got the size, why AB? Just BR. You accomplish the same thing, Plus you get them closer to death.

ABing is a specialized strategy useful when its useful, Wasteful when its not. And when you've got the kind of advantage LaF has right now, its not. Those players would be better off farming restarts or building with their turns (the bare minimum turns until they can make a chat) than ABing.

Besides, you can have offline BR targets of non-wallers just as well as willy nilly ab's.

The super active people can make warchats, that's not a problem. We have a lot of people who play 10 minutes a day, they can't always make warchats.

You're also treating the AB/BR situation as if it's equal. It's not, when a country has 1.5m turrets and 50k tanks it makes the choice easy. You're also assuming that offliner (less active, probably a smaller country) has the jets.

Once again, you're treating those ABs like there was a choice to either hit during a kill run or AB a random target. You also just complained about farming, now you're advocating it? You're all over the place.

Send me a list of non-wallers and ask them to drop turrets, since we can't all afford to buy jets to break 2m raw turrets.

I said nothing about farming restarts now did I, I was pointing at the farming of original countries.

However, since you continue to argue that You're doing the right thing and you're not "ruining" the server but that you're justified in the course at hand I'll bite.

"We have a lot of people who play 10 minutes a day, they can't always make warchats." - Why are they warring? We're netters excuse? My non-specific time warchat method actually helps this player as opposed to hindering them, already covered this. also makes you harder to wall as you're less predictable.

"You're also treating the AB/BR situation as if it's equal. It's not, when a country has 1.5m turrets and 50k tanks it makes the choice easy. You're also assuming that offliner (less active, probably a smaller country) has the jets. " - Would be good if your numbers were right, Considering the highest and lowest turret and tank counts don't correlate like that. And as an example the most recent AB'er I saw could have easily bought enough jets to BR anything he wanted. Less active countries will either be dead or have more stock, you are netters right? Or do you just FA a few countries and everyone else sucks?

"Once again, you're treating those ABs like there was a choice to either hit during a kill run or AB a random target. You also just complained about farming, now you're advocating it? You're all over the place. " - It is exactly a choice. This game is stupidly simple to play, works really well on mobile devices too! I find it impossible to believe that you can't arrange your schedule to hit at least once every 2 days either on a cell phone or otherwise at an arranged time. The choice being made is to be lazy, and its being accommodated by leadership instead of opposed. As to farming, I'll accept it as better than ABing, see above.

"Send me a list of non-wallers and ask them to drop turrets, since we can't all afford to buy jets to break 2m raw turrets. " - Actually you can, to count 2mil jets at current price would be about 400m Cash, at least half you LaF has that on hand. The being unable to afford it is simply to avoid damaging your netting country with unnecessary expenses in a war.

"Should I add in the hits on RESTARTS now? You're spending close to the same amount of time farming/crippling (when not needed) as you are killing, if you're goal is honestly a tag kill, teach your war dept how to do it right and use your size to plow through the remaining living solers, you've got the numbers for the turns and the size to waste the resources breaking it down."

i liked the part how clayq is giving laf pointers on how to run their war

based on the stats, laf seems to have a pretty good idea of how to conduct war

Inference made, I'll concede this point. Not what I was suggesting But a reasonable inference can be made from the words used. Point conceded.

@Trife: It could be better. Size and Numbers matter.

Did you really just ask why some people with less time fight when an alliance goes to war?



Let me glance at ops real quick:

Turrets 1,430,368 @ 145% weapons
vs
Tanks 38,193 @146% weapons



No one in our chats can hit fast enough on a mobile device, most kill runs are between 30 seconds to 1 minute. It's been a problem every set. You're also assuming that person has the free time to show up at that chat, which isn't always true.



1. Not all of LaF can buy 2m jets, the majority of offliners are smaller countries. I already told you this. I'm the one assigning AB targets to people, I always ask their military + cash count. You're simply wrong here.
2. It takes more than 2m jets to efficiently break 2m turrets...

1) That Tank/Turret count isn't the same country I'm sure considering the 1.4m turrets was mine yesterday. and I've got 150k tanks

2) I can hit fast enough on a mobile device, why can't you? Its still a choice.

3) Considering I spied the country that AB'ed me to know how many tanks to buy to stop him. the fact that he bought up almost 300k is silly. If he bought jets instead he's have bought roughly what 800k? bringing him to 1m, able to farm a large % of SoL and break even more with a BR. Shouldn't be hitting active players with offline runs anyway. I'm not wrong here.

4) It takes more than 50k tanks to effectively break 50k tanks too, do you have a point? 2m turrets is still a high ballpark that doesn't exist in the current scenario anyway. And if it does its as rare of a case as the 50k tanks.

Is there some sort of wall-of-text epidemic going around today?

btw, you're still just nitpicking details as opposed to the entire point of the op.

The point being;

-Either man up and admit to wanting to farm sol into the ground for the reset after a tag kill.
-Hurry up and get the tag kill over and done with, and cf having accomplished your goal.
-Take a risk, and attempt to better the server politics instead of doing what everyone expects you to.

Let's go back to the checklist of people AB'ing:

1) Didn't make a chat, going to overflow with turns.
2) Play 10 minutes a day, can't make our posted chat times.
3) Can't afford to buy jets to start an offline BR, so they AB.

If your response is "no", I don't have a reply for you.

And you're obviously a mobile device badass that most LaF'ers aren't, or you participate in slower kill runs. I'll argue with those members next time they try to join a warchat and get 2 hits in. "ClayQ could do 40 hits in the same time" will be my new response.

We've hit the end of logical responses at this point.

PS. You have a country right now with 1.5m turrets and 60k tanks. Time to concede your point.

Not really, because you still haven't actually responded to the op. Instead you nitpicked details that I made clear in the first paragraph wouldn't be entirely correct.

And more like 20 hits in the same time. But yeah, Ask SoF about my stupid rushes though, I'm sure Ivan or someone can tell you about how fast I hit when I want to.

One last nitpick however: As per the spy op I did when I was AB'ed the player ABing me had a grand total of 7 stored turns (and wasn't anywhere near 120 based on what they hit and had left) So to satisfy your #1, hardly overflowing with turns.

2) Play 10 minutes a day, can't make our posted chat times.



Your details that aren't correct are used to support your point. When your information is wrong the rest of your argument lacks validity.

ClayQ, you are under the misconception that LaF purpose is to achieve a tagkill. LaF is NOT trying to achieve a tag kill - feel free to look at the LaF/MD war last reset - we did not attempt to tagkill MD.

Due to the new restart rule changes (restart countries start with X acres and CS and etc), it is sometimes better to just farm/cripple a country than to let him restart. A 6000a country with only 2k built after being ABed with next to no BPT, is barely any better or worse than a 2k fresh restart that receives FA and has all his new CSes intact and builds it all up.

Besides that, we can cripple 3 countries with ABs in the same amount of turns it takes to kill 1 country, who are you to argue with us that killing 1 country is better than crippling 3? Restarted countries don't even lose any turns on hand that were in their dead countries.

Grabbing land in war directly reduces the production of your enemy in addition to reducing their income, their defenses, and their allies defenses, and there's the morale factor of demoralizing your enemy.

Your warring concept of "tagkilling" is outdated, LaF no longer subscribes to it. You may believe us to be inefficient with our turns, but don't try to convince us.

My details are wrong?

Also what argument, I posed a question not an argument, I in not so few words asked LaF what they were planning on doing to prove they aren't trying to ruin the server for their own gain.

If you want to argue with the main point of the post, your argument would have to be that SoL still has a chance. Which is LaFable

In otherwords Your goal is to make SoL your land farm for the rest of the set. Thank you for manning up and admitting it.

You are welcome.

Yes, hitting you is ruining the server. All you're missing is threatening to quit, disband or shut down the game.

ClayQ

We cf when asked two resets when asked by sol.

We cf when asked last reset by MD.

If you guys want a cf this reset your leaders know where to find us.

You should go back and get your stories straight before verifying your last comment by the way.

The Jist I got is that you just want to net, and that SoL was going to FS you so you FS'ed sol.

Its a fact that prolonging this war will hurt server advancement by creating grudges. You (LaF) have claimed or attempted to claim to want to improve the server, contrary to the other side saying that you and sof want to bully it into submission.

By confirming that it is your intent to FS guilds to get their land to aide your netting and thus "bullying" the server, are you sure that's the position you're meaning to take? As opposed to the one of the higher road, the one of improvement for the game as a whole?

hanlong - Its obvious you have developed a grudge, Be the Bigger person and offer it to them instead of waiting for the ones with a grudge to come to you. Your stated goal was accomplished already was it not?

A little honey goes a long ways.

SoL won't ask, and inturn will continue with the plotting and scheming. If you change nothing nothing changes. If you actually want a change make a change. Worst case they say no, you come out ahead either way. If you're saying Sol asking right now would get a CF, what have you got to lose?

as for me personally?

I don't care, I'd just prefer you guys man up and kill my country so I can do something else with my time.

If you can't tell xinhuan is just messing you…

You need to learn xinhuan speak;)

If you want to do something else with your time, delete your country now and stop wasting our time.

Your time is only wasted if you read and respond.

Trying to give you honest answers, you didn't want to believe them.

Believe what? That you think ABing is a valid tactic?
Irrelevant to the threads purpose. The entire point is, you've won do something with it, instead of just continuing to harbor grudge matches into the next decade.

-----


I don't care about sol winning or losing, I may not have made that clear. I revealed that I'm a soler in the spirit of full disclosure. Not because I think Sol is right or Righteous here. I'm playing in SoL because it is where SiiC^K3nt played, and it is for SiiC^K3nt that I'm even playing this restart. The point being made is that, If you want change then take a risk and try to make it. If you don't want change then stop trying to hide behind propaganda and admit it, I told SoL the same thing the other night, and I got a less than desirable answer. In that they claim to have tried and got fluff on for it. Meaning everyone is claiming to have tried.

Fewer pacts, Fair wars (even if not arranged, SoL FSing LaF this set would have been much more fair and fun), Something. I don't know what that something is for sure, but I do know its not whats happening now.

It's not happening because SoL wasn't looking for a fair war with LaF last reset. You must have missed the chat logs last reset which explained LaF's war with MD and how SoL is involved in its plotting.

ClayQ - don't bother. LaF's plan was always to FS someone (it could have been anyone), and then to farm them for the remainder of the set.

They don't understand the difference between winning a war, and not forcing players into submission i.e. quitting, and winning a war and putting their hands up and saying enough is enough. We got our point across.

Heaven forbid any alliance tries to get back at them by trying to fight an even war, because that's not allowed - they'll get their lapdogs to FS you instead. If in the event their lapdogs fail - they'll FS you with another lapdog outnumbering you at least 2:1.

They have no scruples and couldn't care less.

I mean they keep brining up EVO/SOL/MD conversation about warring them and SOF, but then why would Evo have signed a pact with the both of them? I mean even this set SOL offered them a pact, which they rejected.

Apparently the only reason MD didn't want to be FDPs with them anymore is so that MD could FS them. I mean there's clearly nothing else wrong with LaF that would warrant dropping an FDP with them.

I wish there was a trolling moderator.

Do you even know what the word trolling means? Or are you just using cool internet slang, so you appear hard?

kakka