Well, looks like PDM is following the same path MD picked in the doubting outcomes dept.

The obvious solution to this is a third SOF x PDM war to show who is the better clan.

I'm not talking about 2 f'ing sets sov, nor is this about PDM - you guys could have killed us with a mop, we sux at war. Its about how much Sof has benefited from their alliance with Laf and how much of that benefit is due to Laf cheating.

not to make their heads any bigger. but i believe it has to do with helmet coming back, sov joining/recruiting.. and all the people who internally made sof stronger not external help.. unless ur talking prior to these last 2 sets, then i have no knowledge of that i wasnt in sof at that point

As I have also stated in this thread, I cannot comment on SoF prior to my time in it as I simply do not know. I joined SoF at the beginning of Feb and was made a Head within a couple of weeks.

But it can also be argued that since I joined SoF the entire Alliance has changed dramatically. During this time Helmet has taken an active role within SoF (prior to my enlistment as a SoF Head he was a figurehead and fairly inactive).

I can only provide information on the SoF I have participated in. It was 43 members when I joined and is now at 73 members and still growing. We have changed the entire mid-leadership and we have changed how we operate internally.

I like :)

I suppose SOF's official response is to have no response?

SOF, let's resume our arrangement of a good clean fair arranged war the reset after next. I look fwd to it :)

SOF membership ECM war: 100 members, after loss - 71
+ 1 reset: 73
+ 2 resets: 54
+ 3 resets: 44
+ 4 resets: 41 (low point - enter LaF and SoF/SOL relations deteriorate)
+ 5 resets: 43
+ 6 resets: 47
This reset 71

It's a huge boost to be across all the intel of what other alliances are doing. You avoid losing, you avoid drawn out wars and you keep all your members while adding new ones.

The net benefit is your membership goes up, while the membership of your enemies stays equal at best, and in many cases deteriorates. SoF benefited, they know that, but it's a lot more removed to accuse them of complicity than accusing upper leadership of LaF of complicity. SoF are not the bad guys here, but they could acknowledge their rise is directly related to the rise of LaF.

membership went up with sov recruiting.. i joined reset 6 and a couple of old sofers came back

Boltar is a noob that is all. <3

We have 73 countries tagged not 71 :p

Whilst it may seem that we have benefited I cannot say. Most of our pacts we have have been long standing ones with the exception of longterm pacts which have resulted from former wars. And we have been fairly well pacted out.

Our rise in these past 2 sets was due to my recruiting endeavours which resulted in the return of many veterans and also the recruitment of many former IXers.

Also, something you might not be aware of dagga (and also something not relevant to this conversation really), but there is a SOL member with full membership access to SoF and he has been there since last set. I have nothing to hide from SOL and never have ;)

We have a spy in SOL, his name is Eric171!

Lol cypress

With the creation of sof community forum for old members, they started trickling back a lot

I didn't say you had something to hide. Just you benefited from LaF having you under their dubious umbrella. It is from that point, the point where you know LaF's actions were horribly wrong, where you either make a decision to stay under the umbrella or get out from under it.

PS. Boltar - every alliance recruits. SOL recruited last reset for our 75th but due to being beaten down this reset again, we will most likely lose 10-15 members. Recruiting and winning works, recruiting and being hit all the time does not. Big difference.

Can't see it being a laf umbrella any longer dagga

Would someone please think of the children?!?

Spying in exchange for nekkid cyp pics? Or for the honor of being first to die in LAF`s FS?

I don't buy that. It's just pure conjecture. The membership jump the last couple of sets was mostly Sov and him spending countless hours recruiting. It didn't have anything to do with information.

too much whining...blurrrr

Actually, Evo offered to stop hitting you, but your side never replied. It was a mistake in our joint chats, because we misread our pact terms.

As for the ECM war. You are the most bitter person on these forums, and when your alliance loses (in wars you start/instigate) you whine and cry like a baby. You can dish it out, but you certainly can't take it.

ECM was NOT a friendly war. You posted on AT that you would randomly FS (pick their name out of a hat) an alliance if you didn't get another volunteer. Evo then volunteered. If you think threatening to war unsuspecting alliances, unless they comply is friendly then you need your head checked out. Also, I don't find it particularly friendly to put up with your incessant complaining about Evo recruiting too members - followed by more threats.

Well there we go anoniem came clean

and yes I did threaten to put tags into a hat because we asked and waitied for replies for a long time and all tags just wanted to sit and netgain in peace we also traded that 1 war set with you for a 4 set UNAP so i think we both got what we wanted out of that deal

and again im too tired to argue bout this now but the war wasnt planned to be 130 vs 100 it was meant to be on fairly even numbers and evo pulled a recruitment drive just before the war so yes i was annoyed end of story

Ivan

It's not our problem your Rage merger failed. That was your problem, and anyway you said we'd get an advantage in country numbers, and we made sure we did without having to pull in anymore alliances into the war.

Why do we need to make an official response when we have a FA team that is perfectly capable of contacting alliance leaders at will?

But even more to the point why am I being accused of being a cheater and of having a PDM spy account?

Futhermore, why are people trying us by association, saying we benifitted most from the logs and by just being allied to LaF? If people hadn't noticed those logs were shared with most alliances before they were made public and LaF had a lot of DPs.

What I am seeing here is politics first, principle second. Certain alliances who hated LaF (cheating or not) will use this primarily for political means. They plan to destroy LaF, isolate them and then go after any ally that has helped them. They are already trying to justify it by attributing guilt onto us for just being allied to LaF. The politics actually come straight from the top of the game from Pang's statements which mixed illegal ingame activities with sentiments about how LaF's playing style hurt the game.

Onto me personally. I was privy to a lot of information. Never suspected anything came from ingame hacking though. Everything presented to me was either from supposed high level spies or leaks, while actually it prob all came boxcar. He was able to tell me who owned what country, but he claimed he had a method of working this out using people's attack count on their public profile and that might still hold true. But still.. wtf... Pang accusing us of benifitting from information from other sites when you hapilly accepted information from him from our site?

dagga is officially the dumbest poster on AT. What a joke, Sov, don't even entertain the guy. He obviously has some sort of blinders on, blended with a mild case of learning disability.

Play the game better, and represent your alliance better, you come off terribly, worse then Detmer.

*Mobster

hmmm, why is Flamey spying for PDM? and why is martian editing Pang's posts.... gotta be some kind of wild conpsiracy going on there.... where's my tinfoil?

good post flamey, summarizes it up pretty well

also curious as if i were to prove who lulzec were if those alliances would end up voiding pacts with said alliance for ill gotten information (I think that was the word pang used) and if he would indeed be banned from his alliance etc etc etc

anyway fun to see anoniem own up to their UNAP break, never expected that one to happend and i fully expect pigs to start flying soon

Hellllllllll no! Though Chaz says he has some pics of me :P

cypress sends me pics all the time... I think she does it so that it makes her yelling at me acceptible.

lol

ya pang keep deleting my posts.

you have 0 professionalism and its a good thing you are leaving the game.

your personal vendettas are laughable and you are more of a joke than slagpit ever was

1) I didn't delete your posts.

2) Thanks for showing your true colours yet again in a public place.

3) LOL at your seemingly bio-polar attitude toward me :p

Didn't you say you were quitting the game? Yet you are still around. I am not sure if Chevs is the bipolar one.

Chevs, I can confirm Pang did not delete your posts, it was someone else.

Pang it's "bipolar" ;)

Lol bio-polar sounds cooler ;)

^ agreed

I said I was taking a much deserved vacation because I'm busy and tired of dealing with game crap in my free time. I hadn't posted in like 2 weeks (go check) until I had to come back to deal with a big bunch of crap in order to ensure there's something worth coming back to in the fall.

bio-polar = awesome new term. al gore has it too.

this is a stupid thread. And it just creates more confusion and unnecessary tension

Yeah, Slagpit was a complete joke. You just sit there playing the game he helped to create. Who's the bigger joke? The developer or the idiot playing the joke of a developer's game?

p.s. I know you're not an idiot, but I was just making a point, and it seemed the most apt word!

Ladies and gentlemen, I understand that recent events have been wildly important to (most?) everyone, myself included. The development staff have publically stated on more than one occasion that they're doing everything in their power to ensure that the integrity of the game has been restored.

With that in mind, please don't start trash-talking our developers. Without their dedication to the community, we would only be reminiscing about this game, rather than playing it. They've sacrificed countless hours of their own free time over the last few years to ensure that our community can remain together, allies and enemies alike. They've never asked for anything more than your appreciation in return, and it seems that's still too much to ask for some.

wow.
With my moderator hat on:
questioning SoF's motives/goals/politics whatever is fine. Running threads for political purposes/stating your opinion of SoF is also fine.

However, maliciously accusing people of cheating is not.
Having seen messages from other peoples sites and posting them publically can be "cassus belli" so to speak but in general 95% of the posters on this thread are in tags that have obtained that kind of information/taken of advantage of this info one way or another.. just saying including who owned which country. I believe individuals in several major tags on both sides of this have been sharing country lists/owners. This information is not that hard to come by without hacking a site/breaking the game rules so it wouldn't raise red flags. Back in my day over the years we were both the beneficiary and the victim of such information.

Also, trash talking the developpers is not ok.

In general:
Pang was taking a break and wouldn't be posting here at all if this hadn't happened. When we found out about this we were pretty shocked and very upset. It's very hard to keep your cool when people you thought were going to be trustworthy do something underhanded like this especially outside the context of gameplay. And chevs: Pang really didn't delete your post, nor has he taken any moderator actions on this thread.

Just as a community member (ie my opinion):
I think that if the leaders certain alliances were to turn the actions of two individuals into a giant witch hunt against multiple tags, that would be very underhanded and unfortunate. I would also suspect that the final outcome of that on the game/server would be more damaging than any politics. There's a difference between punishing cheaters, and mccarthyism. I'm not addressing this at anyone in particular, I'm just sayin..

Also accusing admins of trying to detroy tags for political purposes is somewhat asinine. People in this community tend to jump to the worst conclusions about stuff too quickly.. you all need more fluff

++martian

Regardless of the cheating accusations, LaF have it a comin'.

The fact their leader cheated just brought it on a bit quicker :)

What does exactly laf have coming? more trash talking by dagga? yeah i suspect they do

im sure SOLs 51 members and 24m net TNW is looking very scary for 87 member LaF with 487m net tnw

They cheated to achive that. And it seems part of Sof leadership supports that...

LaF needed to cheat to beat an alliance with 20 less members and them and they had the FS? LOL

As usual yer as clueless as you are stupid

hanlong apparently thought they needed to.

Actually, if you'd read most of the recent posts to do with this scandal, that's apparently what happened.

I suggest maybe pulling your head out of the sand (or out of a totally different orifice where the sun doesn't shine, whichever it is), accepting the fact that LaF's DON cheated to put LaF at the top of the server, and maybe not posting so much on AT. Because all you're doing is damaging SoF's credibility.

aparentlly they did ...

When you sum up set after set of cheating to gain that advantage? Yeah, we're stupid.

1) my bad then i guess it was martina

let me clarify one thing though. how I feel about your actions ingame and your inability to seperate being a player and and admin is one thing. I truly beleive the events of the last 2 sets have clouded your judgment and ability to be an objective admin. maybe once you cool down from taking your break you will go back and read how politically oriented your first post was that started this all.

the way i feel about this has everything to do with Pang the player/admin and nothing to do with Dave who i chat with about non-earth related crap.

anyway sorry if my public outbursts at you basically calling SoF cheaters was out of line it obviuosly touched a nerve with me. I'm sure their are lots of clean tags in the game but SoF definitely holds itself to one of the highest if not the highest moral and ethical standards with regards to cheating and breaking the game rules, and when an admin attacks us for what seems to me like we attacked his TAG ingame this set it seems unfair.

Chevs you know I <3 you. But honestly. You cannot closely align yourself politically with LaF, an alliance of which Don hanlong and Don Turtle Crawler are just the latest examples of a long line of leaders of that alliance being massive cheaters, and claim that you are holding yourself to the highest moral and ethical standards.

how does that make sense orkin... read martians post.

This whole thing is starting to spiral out of control.

2 people in LaF cheat, and besides the gifting there is no proof they did anything different than what Slagpit was doing for evo.

granted they cheated and should be punished I'm not trying to say its not a huge deal. But still...crucifying the rest of LaF players and EVERY tag that is allied to them...does that seem fair to you?