for the record - we were not hitting other laf members because we could not retal your ttr ( ss ) nice btw i play this strat in tounry all the time and never thought to go full set with it - anyway we were hitting other members because why should we be chasing you for the retals? why should you (laf) get to pick and choose the fat return ones and we get stuck retaling a fluff country back. if we had a pact then yes we would have retaled back. but we just hit our own countries we wanted just as you were doing. a two way street. how come as many times i got hit back i only got 1 retail message? because we are not pacted.
we have been talking about this for a few days and pacts have come up every time to stop this.
now if i were in leadership of laf i would have gotten a pact, but regardless of that i would have done the same thing so i am not suprised by this, just wish we all didn't have to die, just keep grabbing, now all 75 members of your clan gets to chop thier trees.

except Solidsnake of course ^^

SS was our fattest country that entire time, so how as it a "fluffty country" to retal?

Even when LaF attempted to contact you, you were no where to be found.

Not exactly sure how you could have pacted Rage in this mythical scenario.

your tried retaling me 4.5 days after my last hit on rage and still failed, you guys couldnt retal me so you took out your fustration on someone else heh.

H4 got his beard stuck in the pencil sharpener!

There is also the difference that you were top feeding whilst SS wasn't. If you'd retaled you'd have gotten your land back plus some. Instead you hit All X's that were mostly fatter than yourself (thus land:land came in). Also ZIP just because you rund a no defense tyr with alot of mil strat dosnt make you a good grabber, and even though you keep pushing for 1:1 people can/will farm the crap outta you when you screw them over because you're such an easy break, and dont start about retal messages, you dont conduct yourself well in the first place...

we had no pact - no pact - no pact -
there is no frustration, we chose not to retail you because we had no pact. no pact. we could have pumped a guy up, you can see the ops.
we decided to let it go. and because we had no pact we were free to choose who we wanted to grab, just as laf was choosing to grab us.

we will choose who we want to choose, not having you dictate to us who we have to hit as a retail.

if laf is so innocent in all this how come i only got 1 retail message. you keep skipping that. just grabs back and forth. no side sent retal messages that i know of. could be 1 here or there but we exchanged several back and forth. no one followed " the code book of retaling " on this. we had people grabbed that didn't do any attacking either, but we didn't dec. on you because there is no need?
2 un-pacted countries were exchanging a few hits and bam - off to war.
as pang said a war over something -

retal not retail...

I tried that already...

i also know that i was being a prick for top -feeding and i would war me if it was reversed. I don't want to sound so innocent in all this. but we had no pact - why not just kill me?










p.s. no - pact

and thanks again -it's the damn spell check - try it !!


no - pact

not having a pact doesn't mean you can retal whoever you want and expect to get away with it.

Your hits on us were landgrabs, as such we were going to retal them. Just as we would have accepted your retals had you actually retaled (which you didn't).

I don't understand why you feel that a lack of pact somehow meant that we weren't going to retal your hits.

This is an alliance game - you are liable for your teammates and they are liable for you.

how many fluffs can a fluff fluffn fluff
before the fluff and fluff no fluff?

uh thats what they are doing. FFS what the hell is with all the constant whining on AT...

make up ur mind LAF, so are these LGs or cross-retals??

if u think its LG then we r just landgrabbing LAF, just as u r grabbing Rage/Ely... just retal the countries involved n end of case?

if u think we r cross-retalling then u r basically saying, if Country A from Tag X hits a country from Tag Y, Tag Y can't grab any other country in Tag X until Country A is retalled, else it will be treated as cross-retalling?

either way since the war has already started let's juz carry on with it n haf some fun!!! rawrrrrrrrr!!
(can we enforce something like.. no hitting during World Cup matches? u can hit during Half time though.. =P )

all i have to say to rage is this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfogEbrV604

but i still <3 ely

I think I missed the "FA-pact-signing" class where delibrately pissing off a clan resulted on the expectation for a pact. And then be surprised when it wasn't issued.

I don't get the logic behind being unable to retal, so causing fluff with other countries - topfeeds etc, resulting in an FS, and the destruction of the sets of everyone else in the tag, and then being able to laugh about it while everyone gets tagkilled.

I know if I had the upperhand, and a tag half my size was being a thorn, I wouldnt appease them by providing them with a pact - they would be my personal selection of farm land for sets to come.

Maybe I missed the set where this became standard as to how pacts were acquired and relationships built.

2 cents.

@Ron

I think the whole issue was that Rage/Ely's FR Contacts continually refused to sit down on the negotiating table to even try to address the issues. Normally when multiple hits exchange between alliances, pacted or unpacted, especially with prior relations, would seemingly use communications to help sort out the issues.

I'm not FR, I didn't even pay attention to everything that was going on, so that was my personal take, before this war, I logged into LaF maybe once a week. This has nothing to do with LaF, just my personal view. I am confused.

Dear LaF, you started hitting us sometimes multiple times inside 72 hrs and when we do same you decide to FS, wtg LaF. Congratz for setting new policy, LaF can hit unpacted Alliance but that Alliance can't do same to LaF.

Gains can confirm that I asked pact renew but he said no.

p.s. Its Rage and Ely not just Rage.

p.p.s. I haven't got any msgs from LaF's FRs and I haven't got any msgs.

p.p.p.s. RagenEly had other plans as you know but this suits too.

marshal: i have no sympathy for Rage, they ignored our FR's for a long time, and issues grew to the point we felt that it was worth fighting over.

When issues mount, requests to discuss the issue are ignored and the issues begin to get worse, the next logical step is war.

Rage is acting like LaF planned all this out -- we didn't. We started the set netting like we always do, but we were OK with changing plans as needed.

This is a risk you take when you don't want to sign pacts with people, they may declare war on you if they don't like what's going on in game -- for whatever reason.

I like issue based wars, it's a refreshing change from the wars as-of late.

And I have no sympathy for LaF so we are equal on that.

LaF started this mess by letting their members do several landgrabs against same country inside 72 hrs (and normally after retals exceed 5 attacker is moved on kill-list but since RagenEly had other plans this set we didn't kill offender).

I was willing to sign pact as Gains can confirm but he said no.

Truth is that LaF started hit RagenEly and when RagenEly started do same to LaF we got FS'd.

p.s. I'm not that hard to find so wasn't ignoring on my end but no contacts since I msg'd to Gains that could he tell #455 to cease hitting on RagenEly.

Spin it however you want, the truth is this:

No pact.

LaF grabs Rage.

Rage can't retal, topfeeds.

LaF retals per their L:L policy.

Rage retals the retals and brags about not accepting L:L.

LaF attempts to contact Rage FA's about the RoR's. No contact made.

Rage continues to topfeed, LaF continues to grab.

LaF hits Rage and Rage is somehow surprised that rejecting LaF's retal policy and constant topfeeds are getting them killed.

There's a lot of complaining for people who like to war.

On another note,

People complain when you bottomfeed.
People complain when you midfeed.

If you want to dislike someone, just do it and stop making excuses.

I agree with SG totally on all points.... but I have some other thoughts based on Marshal's message:



ya, there's definitely blame to go to LAF here... LaF was hitting you guys and I expect we probably hit you first (although I haven't checked into that, and that is only the tip of the ice berg of the issue) but what I'm saying is that no matter how you slice it, ingame issues are what caused this war. Ingame issue kept building up, spilled somewhat into the public area with a few posts made last week and then we ended up coming to blows over it. No one in LaF is seething mad at Rage or anything, we just felt that the issue was going to come to blows eventually and we weren't getting anywhere diplomatically, so war happened.

Did you guys not see our FS coming or something? I imagine most people knew LaF was on alert, we weren't being super secretive about hiding it.

The bottom line that I think everyone should realize that this is just the boiling over of actual ingame issues, which is something we haven't seen in quite some time, so maybe no one's familiar with it. I've always like them, even when we're on the receiving end of them :p

Finally.

What am azzkicking.
yeah totally outnumbered but still, Laf aint messing around.

yeah, i should have got more involved in FA talks instead of leaving it to the Ely guys since Rage countries were involved in the grabbing:/

I do like ely and such... not so much rage but yah....

Laf has 73 members... if I was a 25 man tag I wouldnt simply start land grabbing random targets unless it got desperate :P

Is it normal to burst out laughing instead of being shocked?

"marshal: i have no sympathy for Rage, they ignored our FR's for a long time, and issues grew to the point we felt that it was worth fighting over."

Technically rage wasn't contacted once by an FA since you went through Ely the whole time:p joint tag people!!

Frankly, we weren't guessing FS, but we did think that nobody in LaF increasing their land for nearly 36 hours was somewhat off, and given that I was constantly scanning dozens of LaFers over it (you generally had terrible SPAL), I feel dumb for not picking that up.

lol if laffers dont increase land then there are issues of some kind :P

i was in mourning over the WC

your allreadlly really gay! I had enough cash on hand to buy up to 8 mil jets on 144% weapons, i come home to take these retals. AND fluffING DEATH was very upset unhappy face

*also would have been dictator. fluff YOU LAF. Thats what i get for not suiciding you...

dragonlance, ill assume you arent from the future WC winners of brazil then? :P

and still wouldnt of broken me lol

ouch!

And they would have been expired!

wars have started even less, there were at least 2 laf-countries which ragenely could have killed due excessive hits inside 72 hrs and if we had do that results would been same as now.

Your more recent ops looked a little friendlier.

Moo

tagkill?

it's poossible..

The evil, evil humanitarians don't like that idea.

LaF never tagkills..

It destroys acres..

I was going to buy up and start retalling.

well next set get an earlier start on it with someone and I doubt anyone would want to hit you much :P