LOL +1

Incorrect, despite the colourful language I stick to facts and actual real world happenings. If you look closely around here, it is the guilty parties that tend to distort and subtract from reality.

hanlong? Ohh it was never really proven, he might have, he might not have. Who really knows??? The admins certainly haven't come up with anything concrete! Don't hold the alliance accountable for two people!!!

SOF/LAF policies encouraging people to quit: It's not their fault! Those players are too weak to stay on! Look at our recruiting drive it's so easy!!! Just recruit and stop being fluff!$#@

SOF buddies with RD: *conspicuous silence*

Sov changing SOFs policies: The saviour is here! Changes are coming! I run two pharamacies and a divorce law practice! I am smart and I will improve the server by leeching off whoever is the top dog of the day, sacrificing my dignity by FDPing alliances we killed for cheating and generally just trying to get people to leave the game so SOF never has to fight a fair war again!! (We know what happens in that scenario)

Like it or not, this game is hugely flawed. A game that is meant to be played over two months can be destroyed in 24 hours by any group morally willing enough to band together and gangbang or outnumber an opponent for a cheap victory. This game relies on group consensus to do the decent thing. It relies on the playing group to keep things in order. When you have rogue elements like SOF and LAf who are so self centered and driven by self interests - this game is fluffed.

http://www.cafepress.ca/mf/69485675/_tshirt

All for you Dagga

dagga just curious but what policies are SoF/LaF using that are making people quit?

Its the bad evil policy of warring people back who wants to war us

We beat Sol.. heck we lost to Sol and all their friends together and I think they lost members then too.

I think we hurt dagga's feelings. Someone give him an ice cream.

i absolutely hate agreeing with dagga, but having dealt with Sov in SOF during that time, I can definitely say that the SOF system changed Sov, Sov didn't change the system.

Maybe he got Obama'ed, but SOF has been the same (or worse) since he reactivated.

Also, the following quote is accurate and something I've been trying to change (to no avail -- thanks anti-admin trolls, dagga included!):



that same quote could have SoF and SOL in it a year ago. It could have SLIT in it a few more years ago, it goes on. until EVERYONE stops treating eachother - and at times the staff - like garbage, we're just going to see more of the same things on this server.


and, finally:

... you... don't actually believe that... do you??

I like what Pang has to say. In regard to your comments Dagga, you are not stating only facts. Having been an active head in SOF and having participated in a major way in organizing the LAF/SOF coalition, I can tell you that much of your information there is wrong. Not wrong in a substantial way, but wrong in who you think motivated who, who contacted who, etc.

In regard to SOF and LAF ruining the game, I think that you do have a point, but you approach it all wrong. The dominant coalition or alliance in the game needs to be moral. This has not been the case. Be it a campaign to weaken the opposition through attrition (this has often been the case) or through cheating or lying, it leaves the weaker side disenchanted. You can sight SOF for implementing strategies such as attrition on its enemies and you would be correct. However, you are very wrong in acting like SOL has never been the wrongdoer.

It is hard to take you as seriously as you should be taken when you act so biased, so nationalistic (alliancalistic?). Really dude, grow up, present your points in a balanced way. People will start to take you more seriously and much more importantly, you will appear as a sample of good judgement rather than another troll.

Believe what pang? that SOF/LAF was threatened by evo sol md pdm and fought to win a war hardly the first time people have fought for survival and we havnt refused to pact you for 6 months or any other silly things

fluff

once again, being very selective about your considered facts dagga. Which obviously distorts your conclusions. But given that this distortion works to SOL's advantage, it is easy to see why this would be convenient for you. However, that doesn't make it true and it doesn't mean everyone else will be as selective as you.

PDM entered into the war of their own choice. Sol and co. wanted the fights these last two sets and possibly more. So yes. Warring them back. You act as if this has been one sided?

pdm/md entered because sof declared on sol/evo in defence of laf, if sof didnt declare then pdm/md wouldnt have entered.

you act as if you don't know this?

Bleh, Anon you knew Sof was going to be in this -_- I knew it and I'm not even in the know. I watched what happened the set before and knew they wanted in that set too. Either way PDM DID have a choice here. I am not saying they chose wrong or debating why they entered. Just saying that anyone should have known Sof would enter there :P

which is it? people wanted to war sof (according to ivan) or sof wanted to war by involving themselves ?

Both imo. It isn't like Sof isnt a clan who doesn't enjoy wars and it is pretty obvious to most that they weren't the only ones who wanted a fight. Perhaps peace can happen this set though :P who knows..

fair enough!

That's cute ;)

What you don't realize is, we could have ALL gang banged Laf in a FS. MD/PDM decided to sit back and see if there was ANY chance we could stay out of it. We waited for Sof to join and we entered. (I'm not saying Sof did anything wrong they helped their allies, as did we)

retired

Holy trolling batman

locket, I'm talking about the previous round where SOF blindsided PDM pretty much OOP as PDM was clearly netting -- something which I made clear to anyone who asked me, and was obviously clear from our country builds.

that one instance is a clearcut example of how Ivan's statement is pure myth, and IMO, throws all of SoF's "facts" into the "spin" category, if you didn't already put them there to begin with :)

There is absolutely no way to justify that war as being something PDM wanted as much as you all would like to spin it to be.

You mean the set where your FDP RD told SOF that PDM wanted to hit SOF along with RD and that PDM is now upset with RD over?

yes its clear myth you got me there pang

RD lied to you then -- we had no plans to hit SoF and that was made clear to everyone. like I said; our country builds were clearly not geared toward war although we expected that we may have to keep an eye on war, since SoF was still potentially without a war.

we wanted RD there for defence; if they told you anything other than that, you were lied to. we made this clear in various troll threads that you were part of. i think you and dagga share that selective memory thing. are you two brothers?

like I said before, I'm glad RD is your ally now and not PDM's. PDM deserves better. RD is the worst ally in this game... i mean have you looked at their track record? more one set stands that a girl with a lower back tattoo that says "Daddy". why would you trust their intel unless you already wanted to hit pdm again as revenge for the war you won?

also, i made it CLEAR to hanlong that it was not our intention to hit SoF, and i KNOW he passed that on to you guys because i saw logs of later convos he shared with me. i don't lie to laf, you of all people should be aware of that.

keep clutching at straws and trying to throw RD under the bus :p

after pdm's actions this set: in that they pacted out and didn't give a crap about whether their allies were left out to dry or not - i'd say that pdm do NOT deserve better, in fact i'd go as far as saying i see pdm as the lowest of the low right now.

pdm are one of the reasons i decided to stop playing. crying about the injustices of their allie RD's "cowardice", then as soon as the shoe's on the other foot pdm do the same.

hypocritical or what

they pacted out without checking...?? as far as I knew, everyone was on the same page. but then again, I checked out of leadership once it was obvious that we'd have to work with SoL, Evo and MD -- 3 alliances I typically do not like working with (besides qz and Jiman).

that pisses me off too because PDM should be better than that, but I hope that PDM did it out of stupidity (TAN) and not out of malice. Good thing I'm talking about the past instances I was part of and not the ones I was not part of, so I think my points all stand.

No one likes the things my former alliances do after I leave them. :(

Events:
1) YOU came to me for an FDP, which I agreed to. I don't think I can hammer home enough the word YOU.
2) YOU asked me if I could break Evo's 1 Year UNAP with SoF, which I again agreed to.
3) YOU pacted out after you realised it's better to suck at netgaining than at war.
4) YOU are not only extremely bad allies for pacting out, but you're hypocrites of the highest order.

N.B. The majority of people wanted an end to the war, so I was not adverse to peace, but only if it was also assured for my allies. Then again some people have a different definition for friendship.

I'd suggest PDM never bring up RD again, because frankly it makes you look stupid.

Oh and apparently Pang thinks that PDM threw a reset away to help MD, SOL and EVO. Wrong. I threw away a year long uNAP with SoF for PDM. I literally threw it away.

No one likes a hypocrite.

what I don't get is... why do people try to justify what they did like they were in the right/wrong. Just say you hit them cause you felt like it.. no need to bring out logs 5 years ago and point to a sentence that states.. "in 5 years we're gonn pretend todo this... but not."

honestly the one thing thats killed and will continue to kill this game... blocks.. doesn't matter which side wins more, we all lose.

K I fixed that for you, sunny jim.

The pacts signed with LaF and sof took place before I took over. I was still retired at the time and had no idea it was even happening. I personally would have never have signed them, but I will honor my predecessors by honoring the pacts. Apologies if this caused you distress. But pacts were signed and I will honor them. I certainly won't discard them simply because you are sniveling on principle alone, ceterus paribus.

Oh look Pang deleted my post.

Apparently, you can't argue with an administrator or expose their flaws without fear of being perma-banned or having your posts deleted.

hahahahahaha RD are such bad allies but its ok for PDM to "sellout" their FDP.

pang youre such a hypocrite.

This was before the LaF cheating scandal, whereby I had no intention of attacking LaF or SoF, particularly when one considers the fact that we had only signed the 1 year uNap the previous reset and had a UNAP with LAF up until the point we broke it last reset.

MD were uNAPped to EVO at the time - they were not friends of Evo, and I did not get along with Arsenal, because I didn't trust him. (Like I told you when you came to me for an FDP).

I should get you a hamster's wheel, because you're about to spin out of control.

Gonna delete this too?

Dear Tan: Nobody is asking PDM to dissolve their current pacts (signed by the "OLD" leadership), not that you would anyway. I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your entire alliance. If you can't understand that, then God help you.

don't bring up admin fluff that isn't meant to be public and your posts don't get deleted. simple as that :)
argue all you like, but you know the rules... you cited it as you broke it.

Different leadership, different policies. Or is all of LaF perpetually guilty of cheating due to hanlong? Once again, apologies for what happened. I've already discussed this with qzjul and he, for the most part, understands where I am coming from. I am sorry if you do not.

it's not hypocritical at all because I don't think it's ok for PDM to do it either and it's a HUGE oversight for them to have NOT checked that, considering how the folks who signed the pacts had been trumpeting the arguments I have been before they signed the pacts. i don't see anything internally that makes me think they did it intentionally... which is a big difference between the RD situation and this one.

but tbh, i know very little about pdm's political planning beyond what I have been talking about -- which ended when SoF FS'ed PDM OOP, based on what was apparently a lie by RD. after that, I checked out of leadership because I felt the game was no longer worth playing if that was how everyone wanted to treat eachother. I also knew the folks we were going to need to work with as the fallout from having our key DP backstab us were folks I didn't like working with (SoL, the pre-cheating "Pang's a LaF spy" MD, and the non-qz Evo war leaders).

no one looks good in this mess -- my point was only that SoF does NOT "only" fight wars that the opponent wants; this is a fallacy. and that Sov didn't change SoF as he claimed.

lol @ dagga.

What a hypocrite.

Tan: Are you trying to be facetious? I'm not arguing about a new or old leadership signing this or that.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy of PDM constantly complaining about RD being bad allies when PDM have proven themselves to be far worse. Your analogy doesn't even work. You're trying to deflect away from the matter at hand -> POT KETTLE fluff ALLY.

For what it's worth, I don't think it was acceptable either. But what's done is done. Pacts were signed and they will be honored. Time to move on.

Anoniem, your narrow worldview is taxing. You are blanket calling pdm hypocrites, yet why am I or any of my staff guilty when none of us committed any wrong? If pdm is hypocritical, then I must also be by association. Please explain how that is the case.

A 3rd party alliance not involved in our wars messaged me that PDM had been trying to pact out.
I immediately messaged archaic asking what was going on. He assured me that PDM were just trying to garner peace and would get back to me before he signed any pacts.
2 days later I'm informed by another alliance that PDM pacted out, despite me explicitly telling archaic that we should try to pact together so everyone can have at least one reset of peace.

MY MESSAGE:
hmm seems like youve pacted out...


ARCHAIC'S REPLY:
yeah, I said that the PDM members were pressing pretty hard for it and I was told that you guys were also talking to them about pacting. There has been a pretty major leadership shake up within PDM


MY REPLY:
talking to them and signing pacts is very different.

being FDPs one would assume it would be nice to be told that youve pacted out rather than being told by another alliance leader.

this selffish behaviour from alliances friend and foe pretty much put the nail in the coffin. cant trust allies to stick with u then there's no point playing this game. absolutely no honour in this game.

anyway, good to see that when i signed the fdp with pang it meant absolutely nothing.


ARCHAIC'S REPLY:
anon, you may have noticed that detmer, balin, and I are no longer heads in PDM. MD threw arsenal out, and you and KJ are no longer EVO heads. We tried, I tried, but we lost. I am so disgusted at the thought of Laf and Sof running the server that I have left the game. PDM bought 2 sets of peace, for which they will probably be destroyed during set 3. I just cannot bring myself to care anymore. Sof is going to be grudge warring all of us for the next year - but honestly - I doubt Pang will keep it plugged in that long.

You've been blanket calling RD hypocrites, so your argument doesn't wash with me. You can use as many eloquent little phrases as you like.

Your alliance pacted out without consultation of its allies, yet you continue to scream blue murder about RD pacting out 6 months ago.

ipso facto, your alliance is hypocritical.

Is that supposed to be an indictment against me or something?

TAN its pretty easy to shake off responsibility, dont act like you were MIA and not even involved in PDM when the pact was signed a week ago, you were certainly plenty active when RD signed SoF, you had plenty to say on the subject then.

He's also been plenty active slating the SoF leadership, and when offered the chance by SoF to dissolve the pact he pussied out.

Not only a hypocrite, but a coward.

Hah. Ask Balin or archaic how active i was when those pacts were signed. There wasn't even any insite communication that those pacts were being considered. If it makes you guys feel better about how mistaken you are about me, I can take a few screen shots for you.

I am not going to dissolve a signed pact. Not now, not ever. Shows how little you know about me.

SoF offered you a mutual termination of the pact. See the word mutual. Look it up.