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mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 5:50:11

oh, and one shotgun round doesn't spread out to a 20 foot swath of death like you seem to think it does. the spread is actually quite limited and killing more than one person with one round would be impressive
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 5:53:53

you keep saying easy access via tighter laws.

most of these shootings were done with weapons that were not the shooters, but the shooters' parents, which is a responsibility problem. however i will ignore that and go after your exact point.


in most states, to get a pistol, you need $400+ dollars, a clean background, no mental red flags for a set number of years, and wait a specific amount of days. that doesnt sound extremely easy to me.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 5:55:27

oh, and the state that the most recent school shooting happened has the most strict gun laws in the states. i wonder why school shootings dont happen every day in states with virtually no gun laws like texas? that is weird
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:05:47

Then the state with the "most strict gun laws" isn't strict enough with the laws. I would further hypothesize that the "stricter laws" did not make much of a difference because the differences were not large enough.

Regarding the weapons being the shooter's parents, while I agree that the parents failed in their responsibility as a gun owner to prevent access from others, if they themselves did not have access to begin with, then the child would also not have access.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:08:51

i pity your lack of freedom and what it has done to your beliefs.

you can have my guns when you take them from me. i am not alone in my viewpoint, and i will not accept punishment because of the actions of such a limited number of psychopaths.

there are 330 million people in my country. bad people are out there. bad people will do what they wish. just because you say thay cant have a gun i guess they will agree with you.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:19:16

Originally posted by mrford:
my point was, guns arnt the problem, they are just the tool

you dont blame the spoon for getting america fat


What about "the access" to the guns and spoons ?

Would all this events happen if there were no guns in the kids house. How is a 16 years old supposed to get a gun when his dad/uncle/grandpa doesn't have one ?

Get out of the box please ...

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:19:42

Therein lies the difference. I do not believe that the lack of guns constitutes a lack of freedom. Far from it.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:20:42

so you all seriously think that it would be easy to remove 270mill guns from the public?

how would you propose that?

Edited By: mrford on Jan 11th 2013, 6:22:44
See Original Post
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:25:35

Originally posted by mrford:
so you all seriously think that it would be easy to remove 200mill guns from the public?

how would you propose that?


1.No more than 1 gun / family. Safety measures of keeping the weapon should be applied.

When i was a kid(15++ years ago) my dad had a hunting rifle and a Walter Gun. However he was obliged to keep those in a steel box, locked.
Now, i have a gun too ( which i didn`t saw for like 10 months - last time i just took it out to shoot some fireworks ). The gun is locked in a steel box and no one else besides me has access to it.

2.No automatics to civilians ( to prevent mass killing - is harder to kill 35 people with a 12 bullets gun )

Things NOT TO DO:

http://static2.rdf.ro/...daily_picdump_1126_21.jpg

Edited By: Alin on Jan 11th 2013, 6:29:45
See Original Post

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:29:48

"2.No automatics to civilians ( to prevent mass killing - is harder to kill 35 people with a 12 bullets gun ) "

im not sure what you mean here. i can not remember a mass shooting using an automatic weapon.

the VT shooting where 30+ people died and other recent shootings were done with pistols with 12 round or less magazines.

do some research please.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:32:16

also, no gun in that pic holds more than 5 rounds. all are hunting weapons
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Syko_Killa Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:34:34

Originally posted by elvesrus:
Originally posted by Syko_Killa:
Originally posted by elvesrus:
sounds targetted with no extra direct victims. almost hate to say this, but if the 2 shot at were bullying him it was going to happen to them sooner or later and it's a much better solution than suicide. only criticism I have is he should have used rock salt instead of bird shot.

Been watching supernatural much?


wtf is supernatural? now if you mean kill bill...

it's a tv show they use rock salt in their shotguns
Do as I say, not as I do.

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:35:35

It is perhaps too easy to forget how many times this has happened. The horrific mass murder at a movie theater in Colorado on July 20, another at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin on August 5, another at a manufacturer in Minneapolis on September 27—and then the unthinkable nightmare at a Connecticut elementary school on December 14—are the latest in an epidemic of such gun violence over the last three decades. Since 1982, there have been at least 62 mass shootings* across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii. Twenty-five of these mass shootings have occurred since 2006, and seven of them took place in 2012. We've mapped them below, including details on the shooters' identities, the types of weapons they used, and the number of victims they injured and killed.

Tragedy in Newtown

The NRA Myth of Arming the Good Guys
151 Victims of Mass Shootings in 2012: Here Are Their Stories
Read our in-depth investigation: More Guns, More Mass Shootings—Coincidence?
Do Armed Civilians Stop Mass Shooters? Actually, No.
Mass Shootings: Maybe We Need a Better Mental-Health Policy
WATCH: Newtown Residents Gather to Mourn and Reflect
DATA: Explore our mass shootings research

Weapons: Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. The arsenal included dozens of assault weapons and semiautomatic handguns. (See charts below.) Just as Jeffrey Weise used a .40-caliber Glock to slaughter students in Red Lake, Minnesota, in 2005, so too did James Holmes, along with an AR-15 assault rifle, when blasting away at his victims in a darkened movie theater. In Newtown, Connecticut, Adam Lanza wielded a .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic assault rifle as he massacred 20 school children and six adults.


Again - please get out of the box!

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:36:24

i have rock salt rounds in my home defense shotgun, among others
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:37:59

none of those are automatic weapons....
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Syko_Killa Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:39:39

Originally posted by mrford:
my point was, guns arnt the problem, they are just the tool

you dont blame the spoon for getting america fat

yes in Germany the only fat people I saw were old people..lol
Do as I say, not as I do.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:42:29

62 mass shootings in 30 years in a nation with 330 million people. man we have a real problem here!

they are tragedies yes, but is 1 out of 10 people running around with a gun trying to murder everyone they see? no. will making it harder to get a gun stop someone who really wants to become infamous? no


maybe it MIGHT be easier to stop spending 3 weeks reporting every facet of a shooting, making the shooter famous, reding into each shooting so far that the fat that it was an estranged person eludes everyone.

in ALL the recent shootings signs of mental illness has been present for in some cases YEARS. would it be easier to change laws for 330 million people, or be a little more vigilant and restrict access to people considered high risk?

you are swinging for the fence and making unreasonable and impossible demands. stop it.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:44:47

"THE ARSENAL INCLUDED DOZENS OF ASSAULT WEAPONS".

Without being a gun expert, and not even owning a tank in my backyard and planing to get a nuclear silo in my front yard i appreciate that over 90% of the ASSAULT WEAPONS are automatics or semi.

However this is not the point. The point is your citizens can get an weapon EASY. To easy. If some sort of gun control and safety measures will apply, some kids or retard adults won`t be able to put their hands on dads Colt or grandpas hunting rifle.


Edited By: Alin on Jan 11th 2013, 6:47:18
See Original Post

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:48:48

i believe you are confusing semi-automatic with automatic
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:51:44

it is incredibly difficult to get an automatic weapon even here.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 6:59:22

nice edit

i find it entertaining that people with so little knowledge have such strong opinions.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Mr Snow

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:00:33

mrford is strong with the logic in this thread. Maybe it's just because of the quality of the opponents. :)

I am surprised this is even headline quality news. Oh wait, there is a big push going on by the obama admin to try to tighten gun laws, and the media is more than willing to try to sway citizens' opinions. Now I remember why it was on CNN all day today.

I wonder how many people were stabbed to death today. Shouldn't that be headline news? The kid didn't even kill anybody.

Anti-gunners using this as a rallying point is idiotic.

KriSatZ Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:03:50

mrford, I think its painfully (and worryingly) obvious you are very pro gun ownership and I am sure you have your reasons.


In the UK we arn't allowed them, save for hunting and sport shooting. But the licence requirement is very strict, and in most cases for them to leave your property you need to talk to the police, and in some cases they move it for you.

It is saddening that year upon year America has problems with scool shootings and the like, but year after year they take an attitude like yourself and seemingly brush the issue under the carpet.
Success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are.

LaFamiglia - zKriSatZwpn - LaFamiglia

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:08:13

Originally posted by mrford:
nice edit

i find it entertaining that people with so little knowledge have such strong opinions.


Whatever. Please stop by and tell us when you applied for that tank.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:12:13

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

those strict laws are working out for you huh?

you know NOTHING about me or my guns. I am probably the MOST responsible gun owner i know. all are locked up, 5 in a heavy 700+ pound safe, a pistol in a quick access safe in the bedroom and a shotgun in a quick access safe near the front door. no one but me and my wife can access them.

but please. stay on your high horse and judge me and my country.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:19:08

Originally posted by mrford:
so you all seriously think that it would be easy to remove 270mill guns from the public?

how would you propose that?


Any large scale gun control law takes years to implement and take effect. The effects of it would not be felt immediately, but will be felt in 10+ years or longer (mindsets of future generations of teenagers).

Take Australia as an example of this which applied strict gun controls in 1996.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...Gun_politics_in_Australia

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:22:27

I ain`t judging you or your country. I am judging your way of "thinking" regarding this matter because that`s the real problem.

And actually, i do know a lot about your guns since you have posted a couple of time ( on AT ) info about your arsenal. Probably owning tons of weapons makes you feel safe...

if i remember correct you had an incident involving a thief or something so i don`t blame you and your need for guns.

But as long as you own n+1 guns and you do not stop to apply for extra-powerfull weapons - you have a little problem in my humble opinion.

Therefore - please stop by and tell me when you submited an application for a tank or nuclear silo!!!

Edited By: Alin on Jan 11th 2013, 7:37:37
See Original Post

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:24:21

im sick and tired of people using Australia as an example. They had neither the population nor the gun proliferation that the US does.

Control has worked very well in the US in the past with the prohibition of alcohol, and the control of drugs. There are already so many illegal guns in the US.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:26:26

Originally posted by mrford:
im sick and tired of people using Australia as an example. They had neither the population nor the gun proliferation that the US does.

Control has worked very well in the US in the past with the prohibition of alcohol, and the control of drugs. There are already so many illegal guns in the US.


Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally


MORE THAN THREE QUARTERS....

you fail again!

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:30:56

i see that your reading comprehension and deductive logic are just as strong as your knowledge on guns.

i am not concerned about the school shootings. they are terrible but they are not my main concern.

you think that every thief and felon has a legal gun? are you that nieve? Just because the kids that get the gun from their parents that have legal guns, doesn't mean that all the guns in the US are legal. i m far more concerned with the felon that has the gun that wants to rob me than i am about some psychopath that has irresponsible parents.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:33:26

fyi, most major cities have "gun buyback" programs a few times year in which people are given $50 gift cards if they turn in guns, no questions asked. and usually 100+ illegal guns are turned in per drive.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:44:46

Originally posted by mrford:
Control has worked very well in the US in the past with the prohibition of alcohol, and the control of drugs. There are already so many illegal guns in the US.


All the more reason to begin work on controlling guns.

Bubble Gum used to be widely available in Singapore. It was then banned because of the widespread problem of people sticking the gum everywhere in public.

Overkill yes? I agree. It is probably still one of the more controversial things here, since bubble gum isn't lethal by any means. To quote the wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...wing_gum_ban_in_Singapore

"It was then reported that vandals had begun sticking chewing gum on the door sensors of MRT trains, preventing the door from functioning properly and causing disruption of train services. Such incidents were rare but costly and culprits were difficult to apprehend. In January 1992, Goh Chok Tong, who had just taken over as Prime Minister, decided on a ban."

It is enforced by public name and shame measures (if caught), and no black market for bubble gum ever emerged.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:49:40

im not even going to respond to that

our cultures are too different. you stick to your tyranny and i will stay here in the US
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:49:49

Originally posted by mrford:
i see that your reading comprehension and deductive logic are just as strong as your knowledge on guns.

i am not concerned about the school shootings. they are terrible but they are not my main concern.

you think that every thief and felon has a legal gun? are you that nieve? Just because the kids that get the gun from their parents that have legal guns, doesn't mean that all the guns in the US are legal. i m far more concerned with the felon that has the gun that wants to rob me than i am about some psychopath that has irresponsible parents.


what were we talking about ... ?

The subject was those killing sprees that happen in schools/theaters/street etc. The point was how the mentally-ill person got the gun ? The conclusion is obviously that more than 3/4 of the guns are purchased legally.

A simple math deduction => gun control and safety measures => less guns => less mentally ill persons able to get their hands on guns ( including dads, grandpas, grandmas, uncle weapon ).

The "thief" problem is something else.
I hope none of this scenarios will ever happen again to either of us but, if i had to choose btw an armed thief who enters any of my proprieties to steal and an armed mentally-disorder person i will choose the thief 10/10 times.

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:58:23

Originally posted by mrford:
im not even going to respond to that

our cultures are too different. you stick to your tyranny and i will stay here in the US


Is it really that different? You are aware both our countries are democratic Republics?

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:58:29

i would prefer to identify the mentally ill and treat them, rather than punish the rest of the country because they MIGHT gain access to a gun.

i guess we just have different outlooks on life. i try to solve the root of a problem, you look for the stop gap. attempting taking guns of the street does nothing to solve mental illness and killing sprees.

a unstable person will do what they want, no matter if it is easy or not. and the media glorifying and bringing so much attention to the tragedy will always be a draw to those that are sick in the head and seeking fame. THAT is the problem. guns ate the tools.

Edited By: mrford on Jan 11th 2013, 8:01:02
See Original Post
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 7:59:09

Originally posted by Xinhuan:
Originally posted by mrford:
im not even going to respond to that

our cultures are too different. you stick to your tyranny and i will stay here in the US


Is it really that different? You are aware both our countries are democratic Republics?


you can call your country that but you banned bubble gum. think bout that for a minute
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:02:53

It isn't a big deal.

I can live without gum, but hey you can't live without guns.

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:04:52

that is not the point. the fact that you cant see that is troubling. where do the bans stop?
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Dibs Ludicrous Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:10:37

wtf? people in Singapore aren't responsible enough to be allowed to chew gum safely? crazy zombies.
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Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:12:15

Originally posted by mrford:
i would prefer to identify the mentally ill and treat them, rather than punish the rest of the country because they MIGHT gain access to a gun.

i guess we just have different outlooks on life. i try to solve the root of a problem, you look for the stop gap. attempting taking guns of the street does nothing to solve mental illness and killing sprees.

a unstable person will do what they want, no matter if it is easy or not.


Those unfortunate events were also caused by:

-Drunk people
-People who had a bad day at work
-People who got bankrupt
-People who divorced
-People who were cheated
Etc.

It is not always about mentally-ill folks, but also about a snap or a moment of crazy/lost we all have on a smaller or larger scale.

Some people ( like you ) will troll internet forums on their lost moments. Others will put their hands on a legally purchased gun and do ... fluff!

Point ( because you seem to loose the point often ) is that is not always the mentally-ill ones.

Edited By: Alin on Jan 11th 2013, 8:15:40
See Original Post

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:17:10

so you dont consider someone who would take the lives of multiple humans mentally ill?

the last 4+ shootings that i remember have all been people that in hind sight have shown signs of illness for MONTHS before the incidents.


let me make this easy for you. it is impossible to get the guns off the streets of the US. there are too many of them. this is a fact. period. you can sit over there in your perfect country and think wht you want, but the fact is you know nothing of the US. you know only what you see on the news and form your opinions on that. you dont even know the difference between the guns you seem to have such a strong opinion on. deal with it.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:17:51

P.S:

On a side note : The bubble gum ban in Singapore is hilarious!

However bubble gum and guns do have something in common : They both make a blast.

Dibs Ludicrous Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:19:21

and they feel that they have the right to do that because?
their parents didn't raise them properly?
their teachers didn't teach the m properly?
all people are just raving lunatics and need to be nuked for it to end?
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Xinhuan Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:20:18

Originally posted by Dibs Ludicrous:
wtf? people in Singapore aren't responsible enough to be allowed to chew gum safely? crazy zombies.


Yeah, Point is that you can't trust people to be responsible. The more so with guns than gums.

Dibs Ludicrous Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:21:35

have to trust people to be responsible or i'd just shoot everybody.
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mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:23:06

no, your government decided that it didnt want to deal with the inconvinence caused by a few idiots chewing gum so they made it so no one could chew gum. that doesnt sound right to me. i guess that is the difference in our outlook in life.
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Alin Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:43:38

Originally posted by mrford:
so you dont consider someone who would take the lives of multiple humans mentally ill?

the last 4+ shootings that i remember have all been people that in hind sight have shown signs of illness for MONTHS before the incidents.


let me make this easy for you. it is impossible to get the guns off the streets of the US. there are too many of them. this is a fact. period. you can sit over there in your perfect country and think wht you want, but the fact is you know nothing of the US. you know only what you see on the news and form your opinions on that. you dont even know the difference between the guns you seem to have such a strong opinion on. deal with it.


:).

Lost moments :

People do things that are not logic
People fight each other
People piss on their neighbor flowers because the neighbor dog do the same on theirs
Etc.

Not all this people are mentally-ill but some of those situation could end with a gun on the wrong hands.

Point ( because you seem to miss them a lot ) is that is not always ABOUT mentally ill persons.



2nd. I have military training. My country had obligatory military training until the late 2000s. I have probably seen, shoot and used 10 times x more guns than you. I didn't do the "sit duck and wait to shoot the thief thing" but search and destroy thing - and i did it because it was "Law".

However i didn`t choose to deal with guns "because it is fun" like you are ( you have mentioned that in some previous dispute about gun control ) but because that was the "Law".

The only news i see is here on this board. But there are constant news; once / 1 or 2 months some kid plays Counter-Strike in his school, with dads Glock, or some adult is avenging his mother dismissal. It is enough for me to understand that YOU ( as a nation ) need GUN control and it is not about your freedom right.

Since when do people know what they want?

And i am done here because you are blinded by YOUR SIDE of the "story".

Point ( because you miss almost all ): less guns less lunatics using them!


Edited By: Alin on Jan 11th 2013, 8:50:56
See Original Post

mrford Game profile

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Jan 11th 2013, 8:48:53

62 "mass shootings" meaning more than 2 victims, in 30 years.

if you are trying to proe a point, dont exaggerate. thats one every 6 months, and not all are in schools and not what i consider to be mass shootings.

i understand your "point" extremely well. you just dont seem to understand mine and that is ironically comical.

Edited By: mrford on Jan 11th 2013, 8:51:03
See Original Post
Swagger of a Chupacabra

[21:37:01] <&KILLERfluffY> when I was doing FA stuff for sof the person who gave me the longest angry rant was Mr Ford

Pontius Pirate

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Jan 11th 2013, 9:00:09

mrford = guy who uses the word "freedom" way too much without having a clear idea of what it means himself

he's drawn the line between free and not-free arbitrarily at "am I allowed to own an assault rifle?"

i'm going to raise you and say that since you aren't allowed to own biological weapons (you know, to booby trap your house incase a rapist breaks in), you're not free and therefore have no idea what freedom means and that you should shut up about freedom and go back to living in your oppressive police state
Originally posted by Cerberus:

This guy is destroying the U.S. Dollars position as the preferred exchange for international trade. The Chinese Ruan is going to replace it soon, then the U.S. will not have control of the IMF