[Sugg] Cheats - Earth Empires Forum

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 5th 2013, 4:02:59

I have a suggestion for dealing with cheats. This suggestion if per server.

1st offense - deletion, but you can restart.

2nd offense - deletion, you cannot restart in that set.

3rd offense - deletion, you cannot play in the next set.

4th offense - banned from the server.

If you try to bypass the above by whatever means, be it hacking into the game or creating a new name/login, 4th offense - banned from the server.

I fail to see the logic in allowing certain people the freedom to ruin other peoples sets by fragrant cheating and still maintain their privacy!

The Nigerian Nightmare.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Dec 5th 2013, 4:18:23

I would like to suggest a "Name and Shame" policy. Currently, deletions are done privately, without repercussions, so cheaters have no disincentive from trying to cheat again every reset. Even if they do get deleted every reset, nobody knows WHO got deleted - hence the consequence is next to zero. Try enough times, and you'll be bound to get lucky enough to not get deleted once sooner or later.

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 5th 2013, 4:23:41

That's all fine and dandy Xin, but people like Viva and h20 and the rest don't mind being outed, we know they cheat and get deleted and have been deleted more times than I can count, so ban them already.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

h2orich

Member
2245

Dec 5th 2013, 9:58:07

I suggest in the 3rd offence, post the cheater country # in the next set, so people can be beware of him/her and if any other people that hate him/her, they can go to war with the cheater!

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 5th 2013, 14:14:22

No, players shouldn't have to deal with this behavior or have to police it. The goal is not to have players throw away their set for cheats. So ban them from the server.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7830

Dec 5th 2013, 14:23:25

You guys must be psychic. There's a thread on moderators about this that I posted about 2 days ago. We are currently discussing it there as well but please continue to post ideas here.

Before suggesting anything keep in mind that it needs to be enforceable and effective (not saying that what is posted above is or isn't). Also note that it is going to depend on why someone was deleted. There's also a distinction between getting deleted multiple times in a reset vs getting deleted over multiple resets.

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
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RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 5th 2013, 15:31:18

Originally posted by martian:

There's also a distinction between getting deleted multiple times in a reset vs getting deleted over multiple resets.

Not if it is over the same cheat that has been documented by mods and admins as unacceptable whether it is over a set or over multiple sets.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 5th 2013, 15:33:34

After a certain number of offenses, you could go back and purple all their past countries. If someone has been caught cheating 5+ times, why should we presume any of their scores to be legit?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 5th 2013, 17:55:19

I don't want to do anything that would encourage people to use a new game account every reset =/

So keep that in mind.

Finally did the signature thing.

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Dec 5th 2013, 18:05:00

Originally posted by qzjul:

I don't want to do anything that would encourage people to use a new game account every reset =/

So keep that in mind.

I'll rather have them use a new account.
1) This means their old account's achievements are wiped/deleted/invalidated.
2) This brings a message that cheating isn't tolerated. Currently, there is no consequence, if someone is deleted, other people don't even know WHO was deleted and who was found cheating.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 5th 2013, 18:08:04

I would like to see more looking into past resets in either case. That and stop protecting the cheaters behind a veil of privacy. Just say, yes, that was h2o cheating again. And tell us who the other guy was that's helping him. And then, if the player who was helping him was the same guy who helped him last set, go back and delete their countries from last set. And now that you have a pattern, go back and look at the set he won tourney. If the country he farmed that set was the same guy, delete them again. There's no need to say since the round ended, the case is closed, and we're not going to bother looking at it. That gives cheaters an incentive to cheat, because they'll think they "got away with it." And that even if they get caught sometimes, if they can make it to the end next time, they'll be "home free."

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 5th 2013, 18:11:56

Originally posted by Xinhuan:

Originally posted by qzjul:

I don't want to do anything that would encourage people to use a new game account every reset =/

So keep that in mind.

But it's much more difficult to track them that way. And you have to give them the benefit of the doubt then, rather than now, where you can assume past behaviour has continued, because you don't know they're a past cheat.

Finally did the signature thing.

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 5th 2013, 19:04:38

Whatever solution you used to get rid of JJ23 should work here. Other than the reporting to the authorities of course.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 5th 2013, 22:17:17

Martian posted in the Primary thread to confirm that h2o and his lackey are not the same person. I wonder why the mods will confirm things deleted cheaters DIDN'T do, but won't confirm what they WERE deleted for. Trying to protect the deleted cheaters from false accusations? But not even telling us the account owners or what rule was violated? That's just another instance of coddling cheaters.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 6th 2013, 17:34:49

Originally posted by blid:

Probably because there'd be too many requests for info if we did? haha I dunno

Finally did the signature thing.

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 6th 2013, 19:43:37

qz, I thought you guys checked IPs and computers to match logins? Start permabanning the IPs and systems then. Let's at least have h20 and co. spring for new hardware with every deletion. I don't know what the economy is like in Malaysia or where ever the hell they are from, but that's a sure way to halt this real quick!

The Nigerian Nightmare.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 6th 2013, 19:46:36

Originally posted by qzjul:

Originally posted by blid:

Probably because there'd be too many requests for info if we did? haha I dunno

I don't know about that. I can only think of a few players who would merit that sort of look in. How many different top finishers get caught cheating? It's just the usual suspects.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 6th 2013, 23:46:49

Originally posted by crest23:

qz, I thought you guys checked IPs and computers to match logins?

IP, which is hard to ban in a place like Malaysia, because IP's float; and devices! device can be as simple as a new browser =/

Finally did the signature thing.

deepcode

Member
309

Dec 9th 2013, 21:51:20

Hostbans are the top tool that can be used to enforce, but frankly, that can be bypassed and can also lead to innocent people locked out of the game. Its not a viable solution.

Crime works because crime pays. Removing the incentive to cheat is the best course of action by removing cheats from the scores list entirely, don't just purple them and let them sit on the score sheet.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7830

Dec 10th 2013, 20:53:51

we dont' just check IP.
There is no viable way to keep a determined individual from playing. We can only make it as hard as possible.
Pretty much the only way to ensure that is to have an IP whitelist and be able to meet each individual in person every time their IP changes to verify it's them and also have people watch them play. Good luck with that:P

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 10th 2013, 21:49:01

How is it that the bonus sites know who is getting bonuses so that you don't double dip? Why don't you use that mechanism? You cannot be implying that there are people out there getting unlimited bonus points? I would like an explanation on that one, I don't know how all that works.

Edited By: crest23 on Dec 10th 2013, 22:11:47

The Nigerian Nightmare.

bstrong86

Member
2482

Dec 10th 2013, 22:12:06

Ohh good question

The Death Knights

XI

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 10th 2013, 23:44:59

Originally posted by crest23:

They don't know that you're not double-dipping =/ we track that on our side. Technically you can go on a different IP and try to get bonus points a second time, but EE just rejects additionals...

Finally did the signature thing.

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 10th 2013, 23:49:03

So explain to me exactly why you cannot adapt this mechanism to prevent people from logging in? Permaban the people that continuous;y like to get deleted, let them keep creating new emails and new accounts and keep track of all that.

Edited By: crest23 on Dec 10th 2013, 23:55:00

The Nigerian Nightmare.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 11th 2013, 4:25:01

Originally posted by crest23:

But, if they're *going to* cheat, it's *MUCH EASIER* to track it and *catch it early* if it's the *same* person over and over again, rather than *new* people that we can't track each time.....

Finally did the signature thing.

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 11th 2013, 6:08:12

The point of this whole discussion is to create a punishment for repeat offenders that goes beyond, getting deleted and having the ability to recreate and get back into the fray. What you are doing now isn't really working, at all. Which is tracking the same account over and over again. I would rather a scenario where if you are a repeat offender, they get deleted on sight. All past scores on all servers get removed from the scores list.

What you are doing now just is not working and all we are hearing from you guys is that nothing can be done.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

bstrong86

Member
2482

Dec 11th 2013, 13:48:41

Ive made a suggeation, its otherwise gone unnoticed but its here

http://www.earthempires.com/...tition-27727?t=1386617147

The Death Knights

XI

deepcode

Member
309

Dec 11th 2013, 18:11:51

Account ban: make new account.
Ip/hostban: switch subnets.

The way the internet works is what stops this from being feasable. It is possible to just keep adding to ban lists to keep them out, and that may be doable now for Admins who have the time, but what happens if by some stroke of miracle that we grow to 50,000 players in the future?

Xinhuan

Member
3728

Dec 12th 2013, 4:07:51

Then you get more moderators and game admins.
Not banning is sending a message that cheating is tolerated.
Sure people can ban evade, but it takes a little bit of effort to do that, and they can't do this as easily while on the move.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 12th 2013, 5:00:54

Speaking of tolerating cheaters I can't believe h2o himself posted a suggestion in this thread. It's like he's going out of his way to prove he has no shame. It totally gives me the creeps

Edited By: blid on Dec 12th 2013, 5:03:11
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 12th 2013, 5:23:04

Does anyone even know who h2o's "helper" is? Why is the game policy to protect the identity of cheaters?

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

braden

Member
11,480

Dec 13th 2013, 4:38:06

flagrant.. or does cologne make things better or worse?

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 13th 2013, 13:49:05

Still no id on h2o2? What is the thinking here? Because it's literally protecting cheaters here. I'd love to hear some reasoning for this...

Edited By: blid on Dec 15th 2013, 21:39:21

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 15th 2013, 21:37:29

Does the lack of response indicate that your position is indefensible? Or you just don't think you need to justify yourselves when it comes to protecting a cheater's right to cheat anonymously? Bizarre.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Cable

Member
1521

Dec 16th 2013, 1:19:33

There definatly needs to be harsher penatlies to reduce cheating other this week im in a ski chalet with 8 people all of which I will happily Skype for you. I wont play turns for them but I will advise them want to do, Seems like I could do really well with 3 leaches and 4 people to farm then turn around have them buy up all my expensive market goods..... I could probably hit 35 million.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 16th 2013, 2:07:47

WHO IS H2O2

Is this for real not telling us? WHY NOT? Why do you WANT people to cheat? (Even if caught, no one will ever know! Go for it! Martian loves cheaters!)

look, im sorry for being a fluff or w/e, but really. am i the only honest player that cant stand this? im a legit guy ready to support the mods, all the time always, but being ignored for 4 days in a row hurts, seeing cheaters win hurts, having my sets ruined by "anonymous" cheaters hurts. im sorry. this policy seems crzy to me. it hurts.

Edited By: blid on Dec 16th 2013, 3:03:05
See Original Post

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

blid

Member

EE Patron
9319

Dec 16th 2013, 3:32:51

In a PM, Xin called me out for pinning everything on martian. Martian, if it's not your fault, yeah I'm sorry. But this is absurd and it not being answered is absurd as well. I'm within my rights to be mad and call people out on the fact that cheaters are being given cover. Remember I had a 40m reset in Express ruined probably by h2o2. This impacts me personally.

Originally posted by Mr. Titanium:

Watch your mouth boy, I have never been accused of cheating on any server nor deleted before you just did right there.

Alin

Member
3848

Dec 16th 2013, 6:17:22

Stop protecting them - reveal the cheaters.

st0ny

Member
611

Dec 16th 2013, 8:33:16

yea, should just sticky a thread and post the names of the offenders and how they violated the rule.

if possible, maybe make it so that these player's country for the following 3 sets will be highlighted in some way.

Edited By: st0ny on Dec 16th 2013, 8:37:20
See Original Post

Originally posted by LATC:

"Don't complain. Assess & adjust."

h2orich

Member
2245

Dec 16th 2013, 8:39:42

whos h2o2? thats dangerous - hydrogen peroxide

crest23

Member
4666

Dec 16th 2013, 14:54:48

Come on, still no response to this thread from the admins? At least start revealing these people. It will surely over run you if you don't address it.

The Nigerian Nightmare.

qzjul

Administrator
Game Development
10,263

Dec 16th 2013, 18:39:44

Originally posted by crest23:

Come on, still no response to this thread from the admins? At least start revealing these people. It will surely over run you if you don't address it.

Ownership will be come more clear eventually. I'm busy with a few other things though first.

Finally did the signature thing.

martian

Game Moderator
Mod Boss
7830

Dec 20th 2013, 14:55:42

more moderators isn't really going to help in this case. I promise you there are multiple fool proof ways of cheating on this game that are practically impossible to detect. They are just a royal pain in the ass and the advantage is limited. The only other solution to stop/limit banned players is to plant spy networks into alliances or set the game up in a way that only a hosting site controlled by the admins has access to any game resources. This would also only partially work and would be more effective against alliance leaders than low level players.

Yeah you lose all your stats. But that won't dissuade a lot of people.

you are all special in the eyes of fluff
(|(|
( ._.) -----)-->
(_(' )(' )

RUN IT IS A KILLER BUNNY!!!

cRaZyDaVe

Member
1487

Dec 21st 2013, 6:26:13

my suggestion is. if someone gets deleted for multiple countries on one server. Delete countries on ALL servers!!!

that would be at least a small deterrent

Originally posted by Twain:

I love the idea of sending even 100 troops into an area so they can go assassinate citizens one at a time.