I know that this will be a nice and contentious issue here on AT, so:

http://news.nationalpost.com/...to-save-ducks-on-highway/

More information: http://news.nationalpost.com/...and-deadly-highway-crash/

Summary:

25 year old woman with no criminal record stopped her car in the left lane of a highway in order to save some ducklings stuck in the median. There was not enough room for a shoulder, so she stopped on the road. A woman in a truck towing a trailer saw her and swerved to avoid her. A man on a Harley with his 16 year old daughter riding behind the truck and trailer went into the back of the car and flipped over it. Both died. The wife/mother was riding behind, claiming that because she had a learner's permit they were only going 85km/h when this happened. I believe the posted speed limit on this highway was 100km/h. Other things that I've read in various places: the motorcyclist didn't hit the car directly, but rather slid into it probably due to sudden breaking and the bike falling. A cop testified that the motorcyclists speed was between 113km/h and 129km/h at the time.

green/peta people always value other than human life higher

Stupid bunny huggers

"Czornobaj was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but refused to do jail time. She now has a sentencing hearing scheduled for August."

people shoot high school girls in downtown toronto the day after christmas and get three years in jail. what are we thinking this woman will get?

my understanding, regardless of act, if you hit the car in front of you, it is your fault. they are braking? they are stopped? it doesn't matter, if they are in front of you and smoking crack and you hit them, you're at fault. but maybe this is for insurance more so than legal fault, i guess?

(also i think they pay like nine dollars a year in automobile insurance in quebec, so..)

This is why we shouldn't be letting women drive. This is what happens when they do.

Also, they were riding a motorcycle aka deathtrap on wheels. Even the tiniest fender bender in one equals life insurance payout to your beneficiary. Motorcycles should be banned because of how dangerous they are and how ducking annoying and douchebaggy their riders are.

I've been somewhat following this story -- 100% manslaughter and she needs to go to jail for it. I'm guessing she'll get 1-3 years.

The crux of the story, IMO, is that she didn't put her hazards on, which you NEED to do when you're stopped in a live lane. Apparently one car swerved to avoid her at the last second but the bike just barrelled into her. Her intent was good but her execution of that intent was incredibly ignorant and it cost two people their lives.

That being said, Quebec has many of the WORST drivers I have ever encountered in my life. I used to live on the border with Quebec and go across all the time. Compared to what I'm used to in Ontario, many drivers tended to speed a ridiculous amount, cut you off, make last second multi-lane changes to make it to the off ramp with zero room, don't watch where they're going, and have no respect for other motorists on the road. It's like a free for all on an icy stretch of highway in the winer. I was always worried about someone just crashing into me because they weren't paying attention to what they're doing or they were driving too fast for the conditions of the road...

So I'm not surprised that someone doing something dumb had HORRIBLE consequences.

sad

from what I understand not only were people in other vehicles able to avoid her car, but she was outside the car helping the ducklings when the guy plowed into her. also, the guy who plowed into her had time to gesture about the car to his wife who was in a motorcycle next to him.

very quebecer of him. he was able to complain about something before he was able to save his own life.

she is culpable, cause the accident wouldn't have happened had she not stopped. but the guy driving the motorcycle obviously had time to avoid her and didn't. when you are driving, especially in a deathtrap like a motorcycle on a highway with your daughter you should pay attention to the road.

so much stupid.

pang, i relate their awful driving to their lack of automobile insurance payments.. who cares, the car gets totalled? meh, my seventy dollars a month in insurance will cover it. is this less than correct, correct or out right wrong?

everybody i have ever met, lets talk asian women in toronto? nope, anybody who drives (i do not, personally), they all say quebec are by far the worst. my question is why is this?

also, their intent was good, to drive father and daughter on a motorcycle, but their execution was awful. hazards i agree entirely, should have been on. but how do you not know the.. ok, sorry, did she SLAM on her brakes, skid marks and all, and a pile up, or was she simply in a "parked" position? i missed this in the article if at all stated..

"pang, i relate their awful driving to their lack of automobile insurance payments.. who cares, the car gets totalled? meh, my seventy dollars a month in insurance will cover it. is this less than correct, correct or out right wrong?"

No. Outright wrong. The collision rate in quebec (as a whole) is lower than ontario in spite of the more hazardous driving conditions. Insurance rates generally don't seem to be an incentive for people to drive more safely although with advent of telematics there is a hope that it will be. But people are generally suspicious of that so who knows.

but that then leaves me suggesting that they are awful drivers because they are god damn horrible people?

can i, for not insulting them, continue to credit it to their lack of insurance? or do we want me to insult them as people :P

also you lost me at telematics, martian :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telematics

yes, sorry, telemetry i know. took me a minute.

Regarding quebec drivers being bad, you can't compare montreal/ottawa region drivers to those in a smaller center like KW or up wehere I live. They may be aggressive, but they can (mostly) winter drive which is more than many people in the GTA can do which is probably why the huge discrepancy when you compare like to like. Also the lack of use of winter tires in the GTA makes a big difference. Since I now work at hwy 7 and leslie I could make some comments about markham drivers too but I don't want to come across as racist :P Plus I think that people in Markham/THornhill/Vaughan/Brampton band are generally more assholish but that could be that it's the right mix of the worlds more agressive cultures (from 2 different continents!!) :P

huh? somebody hit their brakes on a freeway and a bunch of idiots died because they were too stupid to realize that the thing in front of them was moving a bit slower than them? what der fug? too bad that dead people have difficulties with paying higher insurance premiums.

They were parked already outside the car.

At the very least she's guilty of a stupidity violation. Anyone with sense knows that it's dangerous to stop on a highway in the first place, stopping in the left lane (high speed lane) is beyond stupid, it's criminal and she should be tried for criminal negligence to start with. The very idea that she would risk her own life and the lives of everyone else on that highway for a few ducklings is ludicrous.

and the concept of driving your motorcycle into a parked two tonne object is, dare i suggest, less ludicrous?

blinking hazards or not, if you can't determine you're driving a hundred km an hour into a non moving object then whomever gave you your license to begin with should be held equally accountable. mtq, is it? mto in ontario..

i do not walk into cross traffic, get hit, and then claim THEY were in the wrong. cars stall every single day. if you drive into a stalled car, not moving for whatever reason on the planet they might have, and you drive into them.. you're, like, dead and can only blame yourself?

now if she slammed on her breaks and skidded for forty metres it would be a different conversation, i guess. but idiocy is as idiocy does?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...ilty-ducks_n_5516252.html

She was found guilty on both counts. #Justice. Death by hanging to dumbasses. Oh wait this isn't Iran...

she showed her face, and was driving. and thought herself equal to men. and dpesn't speak farsi.. i think all are death in sharia countries.

can she read and write? murder her.

now we're entering into racism so lets hope i don't post here again :P

Ok then.


Lol. You are a fragile hearted little man. I hope you get hit by a motorcycle while your skipping down the road with your co-exist shirt.

How's that pediatric urology degree coming along you kiddie diddler?

Actually at least here, even if that was the case the assumption would be that the person behind her was driving too close to safely stop or beyond the speed limit. Still being their fault. The only exception would be that if she were backing up, which is obviously wrong.

Who the fluff stops for ducks?!!! Galleri lose in canada?

I haven't seen any reports on the safety of the ducks. This is terrible coverage.

If that is true then she should be innocent. His fluff driving shouldnt give her a record.

Sending this girl to jail will do two things:

It will reinforce bad driving habits by having someone who stops on a highway be culpable for a CRIME when people just need to stop fluffing tailgating like assholes (if you can't stop yourself from hitting the person in front of you, you're too fluffing close to them) and,

It will destroy three lives instead of two.

clearly this is a reason for the government to make ducks illegal! where was the regulation? we must expand the bureaucracy before more people die!

But eh, if you don't follow the speed limit and don't follow at the proper distance (like 4 seconds or something), its probably your own fault if you hit the car in front of you.

deepcode: until cars drive w/o drivers assistance then tailgating won't end.

I agree the motorcyclist shares in the blame since the idiot did not see the stopped vehicle in front of him. He was probably suffering from a condition known to skilled motorcyclists as front tire focusing. This is a problem with a lot of motorcyclists that are new to riding. Instead of focusing on th road ahead far enough to compensate and correct for a problem, he was focused on the immediate path of the front tire.

I used to have to go over this a hundred times when I was teaching the motorcycle safety course for the Naval Base I was stationed at.

No doubt that the rider shares the blame for the death of his daughter.

I really think there should be one of those "wrong place wrong time" clauses when it comes to things like this.

I mean seriously.....major tragedy, but sending her to jail for being an idiot isn't going to rehabilitate anyone. Unless they force her to do traffic school once a week or something. That might work. I think I would rather go to jail then traffic school though.

It's an interesting situation, she is probably a total sweetheart*and idiot) for trying to save the chicklets but she is no criminal. We have people who have killed people while driving and texting but have recieved no prison time for it. I know someone I worked with that dropped his phone while driving and he bent down and reached under the seat(taking his eyes off the road) and rear ended a van the fuel tank of the van was punctured and the fuel tank exploded and it litterally blew up and burned a family of 4 alive. He hired a good lawyer and he didnt do any prison time. I mean it was no crime according to the law in America, but 4 people died. Accidents happen all the time, someone dies from an accident everyday, we are a clumsy bunch of people and we make mistakes. It's hard to say what a good and fair punishment should be in this case. Maybe some common sense classes? Common sense obviously isn't all that common, so it should be taught in schools. Yeah common sense should be a class everyone takes in school.

bonus!

I don't know if this is the case in Canada, but on most U.S. interstates, there is a minimum speed limit. Would this apply on the highway this happened? It seems like there has to be a specific traffic statute that this woman must've broken. If not, I find it crazy that she's been found guilty of an actual crime, even though I fully agree that stopping in the middle of a highway, especially without putting on hazards, is pretty dumb.

Like a minimum speed sign on the highway? Never seen any up here.

The cops can pull you if you're driving too slow that it's dangerous afaik, like grandma intentionally doing 40 on the 401.

oh do I have a grandma doing 15 on the i15 story, but i am to drunk to tell it.

Wait, weren't you talking about Quebec? This sounds like Nashville, minus the ice. Oh and you can add these morons that think there is no fast lane. Someone should give every southerner in Nashville a memo: The **** yankees have moved to town and imposed a fast lane on the highways. Violate it at your own peril.

I think Ontario is probably worse for fender-benders and minor accidents but Quebec is more dangerous such that there are more major accidents and death.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/...tp3322-2009-1173.htm#fig1
http://www.tc.gc.ca/...hiclesafety/tp-1317.htm#5
2009/2010 stats (kinda dated... but that is also the period during which I lived there, so the stats actually back up my point better :p):
Driving related fatalities per 100k licensed drivers:
2009:
Ontario: 5.9
Quebec: 10.2

2010:
Ontario: 6.2
Quebec: 9.4

Driving related injuries per 100k licensed drivers:
2009:
Ontario: 678.3
Quebec: 856.6

2010:
Ontario: 682.9
Quebec: 849.5

So I stand by my statement that Quebec is crazier, even if it's worse for your insurance to be in driving in Ontario! :p

What kind of a mouth breathing imbecile STOPS in the left lane of a HIGHWAY where cars are travelling 60+ mph to try and influence the behavior of wild animals?? I mean for christ-fluffing-sake, what kind of decision making process is going on inside of her developmentally challenged mind to see not foresee the many ways in which that is stupid. I don't care how long she goes to prison for, I just hope she gets spayed before she passes her defective genetics on to another generation.

Sadly, I see it all the time, people that risk their idiot lives running into traffic to save a bird that got hit be a car, or comfort a dying squirrel, or perform last rites to a splattered bunny. Its like a sick game of frogger at a home for retards.

On a related note

fluff a duck!

Trife is Cerberus. Thats the truth.

Both parties were probably to blame for stupidity. Since two already died I think the only proper thing would be to force the woman to kill the ducklings one by one.

#senselessjustice

I would have stopped too. Should she go to jail for it that Answer is HELL NO. The lady with the trailer should be at fault 100%. she did the most dangous thing she could and want around her not letting the biker now the car was stopped in front of her. Making everything happen.

Lets flip this store around to something the same. But different at the same time. Say my bolt on my car blow and took out my battery. then everything happen the same. No battery no Four ways. No bolt no moving. who is a failt know?

I had almost the same happen to me a year ago in a van. But i played the biker part. As i see the one that want around the car without braking is at fault. I took the risk of flipping the van then hitting the car. Lucky nothing happened. yes it was the same in every way almost just no Ducks. Car was stopped in the right land on Hwy 400 with no four ways. I was going 130kms. the guy want around the other car without braking. making me brake hard and turn to the right. I should have flipped but I didnt. Guy at fault should have been the guy that want around the stopped car. I am sure in the store she had her brake lights on. my car didnt.

You cause an accident that leads to a death, manslaughter at minimum, simple, end of story, nothing else to debate.

I know only a few have mentioned this, and I am a firm believer that one is responsible for everything that happens to ones own vehicle in traffic.

Any other way of assigning blame is way to flimsy to stand up to scrutiny.

If you run into the vehicle in front of you, only 2 causes are applicable; the distance was too short = idiotic; or the driver doesn't pay attention = even more idiotic.

There is no way possible that the woman in this story could be at fault for the bikers actions. The biker made a decision to drive too close to the car in front, or which might be the more probable case, didn't pay enough attention to notice the speed difference between a stationary object and a speeding bike.
The lady in the story is still responsible for placing her car in a dangerous place however.

Two points:

One - People should not get away with their own acts of colossal stupidity just because it is the general assumption that someone else would have to be at fault. This lady apparently stopped very quickly and did not turn her hazard lights on when she did so. She was in the fast lane on the highway when this occurred and in a location that did not provide much room to get around her.

Two - The general assumption that you are responsible for avoiding hazards in front of you when you're driving/riding is usually correct. 70-80 mph (for Americans) when you're in the fast lane is not usually a problem, but as stated above you have to pay attention and adjust your riding for the road conditions.

This is really a case that cannot be judged without all the evidence, so we have to rely on the jury to reach an appropriate conclusion. The case may well be that they saw equal culpability between the driver and the motorcyclist. The motorcyclist, however, died and can't be held responsible for his role in this accident. On the other hand, the jurists may also have found that the driver's stop was too quick for the motorcyclist to reasonably respond in a safe manner.

In quebec (and france) the left lane is JUST for passing, you aren't supposed to use it normally as a fast lane.

I would have never stopped on a highway, but I have stopped on roads to carry turtles across the street.

Turtles are almost as cool as Boston Terriers.