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Red X Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 0:14:24

Discuss
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Riddler Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:12:13

depends on alliance relations

Red X Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:20:35

pacts are different

no pact between the 2 alliances
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sinistril Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:21:33

might makes right
If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

archaic Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:22:20

Then its 1:1. If the grabber starts abusing 1:1 then its a matter for the war dept.

If they are untagged then its 1:farm/kill
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Red X Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:44:43

Originally posted by sinistril:
might makes right


I have not heard that one in a while lol
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enshula Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 1:56:44

if your grabbing with the intent of being protected by a retal policy expect the other side to be upset

if you keep doing it it will probably lead to war

whats the point in having a policy you always come out behind with?


by definition usually the thinner side is the one grabbing, since if they arnt the thinner side will just do retaliatory topfeeds on the phat side

and landphat tags tend to be stronger than thin ones, discounting things like all techers stocking or zero prep time

Red X Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 2:14:10

Originally posted by enshula:
if your grabbing with the intent of being protected by a retal policy expect the other side to be upset

if you keep doing it it will probably lead to war

whats the point in having a policy you always come out behind with?


by definition usually the thinner side is the one grabbing, since if they arnt the thinner side will just do retaliatory topfeeds on the phat side

and landphat tags tend to be stronger than thin ones, discounting things like all techers stocking or zero prep time



I see what you are saying; however, if you do not have the defense, do you need the land?
You are just landfat trying to stock as much money as you can. You do not have as much expenses because you are keeping your costs down.

As long as you are willing to war over it, that is what matters in the end.
The game is so small now that it does not really mater, but I miss when wars were over real issues.
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enshula Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 5:36:26

people can always topfeed

by which i mean grab with the intent of benefiting after a limited amount of allowed/expected retals

who has what land/networth isnt really relevant

dict gives bonus buildings, and even in an even trade it slows people down versus just grabbing bots, dict also gives mil bonus which creates efficiencies except in min jets send for ghosts

tyranny gives bonus land and means topfeedings possible even when your slightly bigger in land than your target

demo gives slightly higher mil strat

being a topfeeder almost always means you grow slower meaning you can afford to have higher mil strat and weaps further allowing you to come out ahead in exchanges

topfeeders often cant even build a full grab in one days turns meaning they can do almost all their hits with ps which not only increases gains by 50% but mil strength, the only downside is you need to send more jets for ghosts

topfeeders can relatively easily double up mil strength with o allies given they are costing o allies very little and can to some degree give everyone a shot at using the jets at least for important hits

topfeeders have a lot more of their networth dedicated to single hits, appropriate techs, less land, which could be as much as 20-30m nw difference later on, this gives the topfeeder nw room to buy enough jets to break anything get to a good relative nw and ironically be safer the less defence they have

since to do a retal for good ghosts the grabbed target will often end up much higher in nw getting poor returns on the retal

to avoid that you either need to run dedicated retallers, which still wont come out equal, might get most of the land back to the target if you two step them but even if it gets the netter back to par, which it wont, means the tag is still coming out way behind

farming bots is pretty easy, landtrading was much harder, old midfeeding was harder than both, old bottomfeeding varied, the main difference i remember was having to diffuse and get sdi mainly, but topfeeding is also pretty easy, incredibly simple if you dont try to benefit as much as possible, its almost suiciding lite screwing with whichever netters you choose and letting the others outcompete them, but the main difference is topfeeding is a losing strategy

maybe in solo servers people have won by topfeeding, but even a lot of the ttr c/i bully style countries are probably trying to midfeed or doing stuff in express where you happen to be higher in nw than your targets due to play time differences more than anything else

theres just too few sides now to have good wars, too few allies to call in to balance things, too few groups that can realign and change sides as things get unbalanced, too few opportunities for non total wars, too hard to balance even wars

most people wont tolerate being farmed, without either trading or bot farming or both wed probably see a lot more people quitting from farming, or suiciding then netters quitting

policy dispute can be a real issue but quite often it was just an excuse

theres so many changes that seem like a good idea but cause problems, fs's are way too overpowered with more turns and 3% readiness so wars became less fun being over quicker

then restart bonuses came in which changes some of it but has made suiciding way easier, quite often leading to people who lose too quick uneven wars going suiciding instead of trying to come back

i havnt followed many wars lately but i dont remember come back wars for years, but it used to be quite common one side would lose all mids the others all tops and then it would swing one way

DruncK Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 11:51:13

Most recent comebacks were Elders v SoL and Elders v SoF, like 5? sets ago

archaic Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 18:29:13

Originally posted by Red X:

I see what you are saying; however, if you do not have the defense, do you need the land?
You are just landfat trying to stock as much money as you can. You do not have as much expenses because you are keeping your costs dow.


Surely your just trolling now Red, I know you know better than that. The myth that you can buy turrets and protect your land has been beaten to death.

I can take a 12-15k acre dict techer and grab ANY country on the server at will. 20M turrets would not even come close to protecting you if I decided to take your land. The best part is that I'll get 8k acres on the grab and you're lucky to get 2k on the retal.

Defense is strictly suicider protection. Jets are the only viable defense, and always have been.
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Red X Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 20:16:17

Originally posted by archaic:
Originally posted by Red X:

I see what you are saying; however, if you do not have the defense, do you need the land?
You are just landfat trying to stock as much money as you can. You do not have as much expenses because you are keeping your costs dow.


Surely your just trolling now Red, I know you know better than that. The myth that you can buy turrets and protect your land has been beaten to death.

I can take a 12-15k acre dict techer and grab ANY country on the server at will. 20M turrets would not even come close to protecting you if I decided to take your land. The best part is that I'll get 8k acres on the grab and you're lucky to get 2k on the retal.

Defense is strictly suicider protection. Jets are the only viable defense, and always have been.



I'm a product of old FFA. There was no such thing as L:L
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archaic Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 20:30:10

I don't disagree, L:L was always a Laf thing. But, the current set of game mechanics is set up heavily biased for top feeding. The only way to prevent it is to kill the offender. Elders and their ilk love using the 8k topfeed to provoke netters that legitimately have no recourse but war.

It would be an easy matter to code C:C retal equality into the game, but right now its all bots and griefers.
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mrcuban Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 23:40:54

As I remember it LAF only brought in L:L once they decided to stop farming the absolute fluff out of small tags and untagged real players. Which probably feel into line when bots were introduced.

I too understand full well that you're best defence is offence in the current state in the game... No amount of torrents can hold your land. 100% defence unit ratio is actually a disadvantage as it means you cannot retal, perfect target....

mrcuban Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 23:41:15

*turrets

Akula Game profile

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Sep 8th 2018, 23:49:40

1:kill ?
=============================
"Astra inclinant, sed non obligant"

SOL http://sol.ghqnet.com/
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Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 1:03:01

Originally posted by Akula:
1:kill ?


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enshula Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 2:16:47

l:l was way before bots

most of the netters were in favour of it, most of the good warrers didnt care except when they wanted to pick a fight

sol were the ones that had an ideological opposition to it and would periodically drop pacts including fdp's over it

there were bots around of course, rd bots, pdm bots and so on, but there wernt a lot of sets where bots were free for all to farm

there were some sets with jet bots maybe the pdm ones? but rd were quite touchy about theirs being farmed, maybe it was hand run countries

enshula Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 2:18:36

and there was l:l in ffa as well

panlv mercinc and others did it

varying on which tags were the most powerful at various times

IgnitionCWG Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 2:21:51

I remember when a few clans tried to introduce 2:1 but it usually was just an excuse to get a war
*Splat*

Gerdler Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 2:51:45

Hmm I think SoF were the first to start with the L:L.

RedX said "if you dont have the defence do you need the land?" well I will counter to you: If you are so small that you still will come out ahead after a 1:1 trade (getting hit back AFTER a large PS) it means you have grown slowly on purpose, ie you did not actually need the land.

Everyone who has more land than you, gained it in a way you could have too. You would have been better off for it. You know this and you also know you were not killed for TFing. You were killed for octa-tapping omega and now you are going to be killed again for suiciding them over retals that took back 50% of the land.

You are also being farmed by Elders and not retaling while TFing and suiciding Omega? your rationale being what exactly?

"Gotta bring down those foul Omegans, scourge of EE, grabbing bots and not bothering anyone, the dark side."

enshula Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 3:34:12

Mwahaha (#426)
Trixx are for kids (#474) STEEL
Flat earth is not a theory (#419) NETorDIE

have messed with omega but i presume its 474 your referring to

Gerdler Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 4:04:49

419 and 474 are RedX if I'm not mistaken.

Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 4:05:37

Originally posted by Gerdler:
Hmm I think SoF were the first to start with the L:L.

RedX said "if you dont have the defence do you need the land?" well I will counter to you: If you are so small that you still will come out ahead after a 1:1 trade (getting hit back AFTER a large PS) it means you have grown slowly on purpose, ie you did not actually need the land.

Everyone who has more land than you, gained it in a way you could have too. You would have been better off for it. You know this and you also know you were not killed for TFing. You were killed for octa-tapping omega and now you are going to be killed again for suiciding them over retals that took back 50% of the land.

You are also being farmed by Elders and not retaling while TFing and suiciding Omega? your rationale being what exactly?

"Gotta bring down those foul Omegans, scourge of EE, grabbing bots and not bothering anyone, the dark side."



Well it is no secret I am 474.

I told elders to farm me, figured DR would look good on me.

As far as to why omega, easy target. Sorry havoc like i told you had i known you was still there I would have probably messed with another tag.

I only went full on stupid after it was more then 1 hit back. I fully expect to be killed or crippled.

I just wanted to have insane grabs this set, but I guess that proves a point made by someone above that I had no real intention of netting.
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galleri Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 4:08:36

Originally posted by archaic:
I don't disagree, L:L was always a Laf thing. But, the current set of game mechanics is set up heavily biased for top feeding. The only way to prevent it is to kill the offender. Elders and their ilk love using the 8k topfeed to provoke netters that legitimately have no recourse but war.

It would be an easy matter to code C:C retal equality into the game, but right now its all bots and griefers.

It was also an MD thing.

Also Red...don't sinistril started ;)


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archaic Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 4:35:12

Red, I like you and I always have - but the fact that one of the mods is openly suiciding and griefing netters is pretty disappointing TBH
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Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 11:22:41

Originally posted by archaic:
Red, I like you and I always have - but the fact that one of the mods is openly suiciding and griefing netters is pretty disappointing TBH


I wanted to grab massive acres. The rest the game politics are set up so alliance would not back that type of policy. So, I was forced to run solo. I tagged up, and I did not hide. Would it have been better if my one person tag declared war?

If you want to have pdm help then kill me, no harm, no foul. It is an alliance server after all
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enshula Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 12:34:53

places to get big numbers grabbing in order

1 test server
2 ffa
3 alliance

of course your free to do what you like but interacting in that way with others is only likely to make someone or multiple people quit, and doing stuff which is likely to reduce player base while your putting in effort being a game mod seems counter productive or trollish

Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 12:43:11

Originally posted by enshula:
places to get big numbers grabbing in order

1 test server
2 ffa
3 alliance

of course your free to do what you like but interacting in that way with others is only likely to make someone or multiple people quit, and doing stuff which is likely to reduce player base while your putting in effort being a game mod seems counter productive or trollish


I agree it could seem that way. I can admit that I could have and probably should have done it on another server, but I did not. FFA has real players like alliance, so that would still be counter productive, no?
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enshula Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 12:56:22

yes although if your only topfeeding 1 of 16 thats going to have a different impact

though there is only 12 tags and probably 33 players tagged, maybe some untagged

so it wouldnt take much effort to topfeed everyone once there, even though people tend to die quickly that topfeed in ffa

Gerdler Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 13:06:09

Originally posted by archaic:
Red, I like you and I always have - but the fact that one of the mods is openly suiciding and griefing netters is pretty disappointing TBH

I would use harsher language than disappointing if I felt the need to put a name to it, but yes..

I guess tho that the fewer the players the lower the work load in modding the game so I guess he just wants to get there this way.

Edited By: Gerdler on Sep 9th 2018, 13:08:59

Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 13:08:23

Originally posted by enshula:
yes although if your only topfeeding 1 of 16 thats going to have a different impact

though there is only 12 tags and probably 33 players tagged, maybe some untagged

so it wouldnt take much effort to topfeed everyone once there, even though people tend to die quickly that topfeed in ffa


You are making the assumption they are playing 16, but I see where you are going with this.
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Red X Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 13:08:42

Originally posted by Gerdler:
Originally posted by archaic:
Red, I like you and I always have - but the fact that one of the mods is openly suiciding and griefing netters is pretty disappointing TBH

I would use harsher language than disappointing if I felt the need to put a name to it, but yes..


A spade is a spade. I'd cuss me too
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Makinso Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 19:29:43

Originally posted by DruncK:
Most recent comebacks were Elders v SoL and Elders v SoF, like 5? sets ago



I actually think Elders vs SOL had two comeback wars. 1 on each side.

Makinso Game profile

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Sep 9th 2018, 19:32:17

Originally posted by enshula:
l:l was way before bots

most of the netters were in favour of it, most of the good warrers didnt care except when they wanted to pick a fight

sol were the ones that had an ideological opposition to it and would periodically drop pacts including fdp's over it

there were bots around of course, rd bots, pdm bots and so on, but there wernt a lot of sets where bots were free for all to farm

there were some sets with jet bots maybe the pdm ones? but rd were quite touchy about theirs being farmed, maybe it was hand run countries



We had that ideological opposition (leading to quite a few wars and political shifts) we still kind of have that position, but the server is to small to enforce it. We tend to play nice during retal situations nowadays just for the sake of it.


"including fdp's over it" yes at least twice on my account (of which LaF was one). Not sure what dragon or my early predecessors / successors as a red did for it.

archaic Game profile

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Sep 10th 2018, 1:29:38

The thing is, even a fluffter like me grabs about 2500 acres a day. I open up an old boxcar account and sort untagged by NW, GDI, and defends. After I sift through and pick out 6-10 candidates I start doing spy-ops. Now with 50k acres I miss quite a few ops, so I end up using 15-20 turns spying my candidate bots. Once I select them and sort the order I'll SS/PS them in I start grabbing. One SS, 4 turns building readiness, rinse - repeat. By the end of the evening I've spent 60 turns and about 1/2 hour on it.

Last set, somebody posing as a bot got me for 11k acres. Thats about 4 nights worth of work and 240ish turns. We spent another few hundred turns as a tag killing him. It was easily a 50-60M hit on my final NW and a colossal waste of my time. Its a waste of my time I really only have a limited tolerance for and the day will come when I'll just cash out.

Anyway, carry on.
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sinistril Game profile

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Sep 10th 2018, 1:48:39

Originally posted by enshula:
places to get big numbers grabbing in order

1 test server
2 ffa
3 alliance

of course your free to do what you like but interacting in that way with others is only likely to make someone or multiple people quit, and doing stuff which is likely to reduce player base while your putting in effort being a game mod seems counter productive or trollish


It's unfair to grab me, grab that other guy on that other server, amirite?
If you give a man some fire, he'll be warm for awhile. If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

enshula Game profile

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Sep 10th 2018, 1:55:11

yeah the test server

although id just grab myself, and he didnt grab me anyway hes grabbing omega

even on test server you get idiots killing other peoples countries that they are using to test things