Who currently benefits from restart bonuses? Countries that are killed netting are quitting the reset whether they get bonuses or not.
Countries at war are able to get FA from their comrades to help them restart.
Suiciders are getting a license to restart 3-4 times in a set without problems.

The bonuses also make wars prolonged and boring.

While I think the suicider problem is overblown, restart bonuses really don't serve much purpose for non-suiciders.

Discuss.

Nerf.

limit it to tagged countries with at least 5 members.

I like the idea of CS and Land and tech as it gives a faster start to restarts and doesn't make the FS too overpowered. Suiciders are abusing it - so nerf the military/cash side of things..... drop back to 10% or even 5%.

I do agree that restart bonuses should be removed or reduced.

If they are reduced I propose totally shredding the on-hand part and almost keeping the on-market part.

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Sinistril said he get suicided about 2% of the time lol... for me its about 70% of the time on average, more on some servers, less on others. here is my experience of a little over 1.5 years playing:
FFA, tourney, primary, express = quite few suicides, some wars.
1a= I have yet to finish a set without war or being suicided, 9th 1a set on EE so far and I could include the 25 or so resets I played in E2025 in that statistic and I still would not have finished without war or being suicided, I am however one of the top 10 most defended countries in the game at all times when I'm suicided nowadays, which perhaps makes the suicider try a bit harder, I dunno? At least it disproves the arguement that you can defend against suiciders.
Team=suicided or FSed(or killed for retalling) 7 of the 8 sets I've tried to net.

If suiciding was difficult in any way shape or form it'd be epic, but it is not. You just blow your stock and ruin 10-15 players resets because it's impossible to defend at all times against the most jets a player could buy up to, you would drown in expenses.

It's the biggest issue in this game by far that people who come here to relax and play 15 minutes and talk a bit with their friends get a real bad experience and quit.

Make some new thing, let's call it "Trump's Wall." When you put up the walls, your break goes up 1000% but you can't make any attacks. You can't join if you've made any attacks in 48 hours. Destroying the wall costs $X/acre. Or something.

If we get a Trump wall I want an Obama phone so I can spam message everyone on the server.

if you choose to take restart bonuses you should be easily identifiable as whatever country you were previously

also it would be nice if restart bonuses were related to unprepared countries being blindsided rather than prepared countries using a large portion of their resources before dying

i dont know if it still happens but chem rushes were unstoppable and resulted in fewer resources spent on defence, hits taken and therefore bonuses given than troop or jet kills

would be nice to have restart bonuses reduced if you were stock stealing or dropping land too

its not that difficult to figure what was restart's orig country.

When 1 player dies that is true but when 10 die each day and you can manipulate several factors to hide better it starts becomming difficult and sometimes impossible to track all. Even when its not impossible it's tedious AF.

It should be easy enough to create a mechanic that if you want your restart bonus you have to keep the name.

or stay tagged like in team.

GHQ has a restart calculator that seems pretty accurate.

Yeah I use that too and it gives a rough estimate. I'm just saying I could hide from anyone, including myself, if I set my mind to it, as long as others are dying too.

That is a problem sometimes, but only when we are lazy. If we don't feel like looking them up we keep a sheet with all restarts after the kill and start killing again.

If you know when boxcar, ghq, earthgraphs, eestats etc update its very easy to make that formula kinda useless as long as you got enough countries dying every day on the server. I'm not saying this is common practice but the game is set up so that restarts can hide, and I see no reason for that tbh. I also see no reason for why it should be necessary to spend my leisure time like that. The game gives too many advantages to bad players.

Just a friendly reminder that restart bonuses suck

It is ridiculous that a suicider's crappy rainbow restart can look like this two days after coming out of protection

yeah go ahead and ban me for posting the op, protect the suiciders while legit gamers bleed away from the game.

The status of the Dictatorship of Dont let the bear catch you (#507).

The Basics
Turns Left 7
Turns Taken 388
Turns Stored 0
Rank 168
Networth $7,584,826

NW on Market $36,000
GDI No


Current Status
Money $787,305,369
Population 91,170
Land 5,701 Acres
Food 345,000 bushels
Production 11,638 bushels
Consumption 13,457 bushels
Net Change -1,819 bushels
Oil 160,000 barrels
Production 136 barrels

Economics
Tax Revenues $1,340,199
Tax Rate 35%
Per Capita Income $42.00
Expenses $1,641,016
Military $1,572,629
Alliance/GDI $11,377
Land $57,010
Net Income $-300,817


Land Distribution
Enterprise Zones 1,277
Residences 1,277
Industrial Complexes 1,278
Military Bases 0
Research Labs 0
Farms 906
Oil Rigs 68
Construction Sites 96
Unused Lands 799

Tech Rate 3
Building Rate 20


Military Forces
Spies 711,553
Troops 1,999,992
Jets 1,568,233
Turrets 2,999,992
Tanks 199,998
Nuclear Missiles 0
Chemical Missiles 0
Cruise Missiles 0

Has Def Allies No
SPAL 228
Chems To Kill 129
Defense Bonus 0.0

Technology
Military 110,000 84%
Medical 5,000 95%
Business 230,000 180%
Residential 230,000 180%
Agricultural 150,000 227%
Warfare 40,000 3.282%
Military Strategy 70,000 133%
Weapons 91,000 145%
Industrial 52,000 144.22%
Spy 65,000 140.58%
SDI 62,863 72.29%
Total 1,105,863

^that

at least would solve majority of suiciders big restarts, totally different thing if its possible.

Tags with more than 5 members can FA members that are restarting in war. (An example, I had to kill my own country on FFA several times to get it small enough for a tag kill, now it's the same size as my other countries as I FA'd it at very little expense). People who are suicided and killed, (does that happen?) usually do not restart anyways. Limiting it to countries with 5 or more members serves no real purpose and is exlusionary and arbitrary anyways (why 5? why not 10? or 20? why not make it so only laf gets restart bonus?)

Just eliminate them completely.

@cyref.
Exactly, what's the purpose of a country being that good after being killed?

Easy solution: don't let them restart.

In fact,. let's implement it on TEAM server and see how it goes!

mehul did that on last set of his FFA and it sucked and benefitted those who ran multies since they had countries to play after "allowed" 15 were killed. worst case players twiddle thumbs (if they play on alliance or team or FFA only) next 30-45 days on 2 months servers and ~15 days on team.

the ffa thing was dumb

what he did was cap country creation at something like 40-50k so people made all their countries immediately to have spares and just left them there unplayed

dont recall restarts being banned when 15 limit was in though, actually maybe the limit came in then too after people started making 100's each in case they died

for a long time the 15 limit was considered unfair by the player base though

there used to be things against the rule in 1a too that everyone thought was fine for a long time

country swapping, similar to babysitting but if someone quit someone else would take over the country, i even remember countries being sold from one tag to another

multies in general, some tags, i think maybe han tga elites ran multies in tag and only hit them for land then had heavy retal policies against other tags

and something relevant to this discussion

almost all the war tags considered it legit to prep restarts, i think they left them in protection with 99 turns run and full turns saved which would have in some ways been more powerful than todays restart bonus if what you needed was turns not networth

no new countries allowed to create after certain date (month or so) so once war happened after that date no restarting and no playing unless had dummy accounts.

yea alot FFA alliances prepared for that by making dummy accounts and yes it was against rules but FFA (and limited) was basically unmodded (mickster, patty, mrs croaker, etc modded only alliance and solos), sometimes countries were caught by mehul's anti-cheat script but it wasn't big deal since players had reserves.

my memory of it was all you needed to do was delete cookies before changing strings when it first came in

yes to get beyond mehul's limit of 15 countries but on last set of mehul's FFA after month or so players had those countries they had created before that date and not a single more.

bump

ttt
Oldschool. A real alliance FAs it's restarts to get back into battle during real wars.

Giving suiciders/griefers a restart bonus is like resupplying a lowlife punk in spray paint cans after he tags your garage with crappy graffiti

Play through some scenarios.

No restart bonus, current environment. SOL get mad at some small netting clan.. With say 7 members.

Small clan tag killed in FS, no one to fa, no restart bonus, no point in playing anymore. There's still a month left, a couple of the 7 get used to not playing and stay not playing. Less players, forever.

Say you install a time limit. No countries in last 3 weeks. Laf and a different small netting clan both have beautiful countries, everyone else at war. Laf kills clan in FS w 20 days left, owns every country in top 25.

Now imagine either one of those scenarios, but the devs have launched an app and newbies start playing. You think they'll stick around?

If SOL hits a clan of netting clan of 7 people, those people will quit for the set anyways. This happened with EVO two sets ago. Restart bonuses didn't matter. LAF doesn't do anything like your second scenario and it wouldn't make sense for them to start with no restart bonuses because that would just recruit for a tag like Elders that is more than willing to go toe to toe with LAF over something like that.

What you're saying is you and your friends lack the ability to wall so you need restart bonuses when you're suiciding.

at a minimum restart bonuses should be limited to countries that were in a tag and restart in the same tag with the same name

I'm not thinking about myself sinistril.

That's seems sensible enshula, but it's easy to work around without some qualifier like time in tag.

As you've stated it, a suicider could just create his own tag prior to going off. Keeping the same name would be would be no issue since it's already easy to identify restarts.

Would need to be in tag for some reasonable period - a couple/few days so tag jumpers like sinistril mentioned arent completely screwed - EXCLUDING vacation time.

Tag locking for restarts makes sense.

The current restart bonus makes it pointless to stonewall for suiciders et al - why bother using resources for stonewalling when you can put max goods on the martket and have them stay there and have an even more overpowered restart? The restart bonus is so good for suiciders that they can get at least 3-4 damage-causing restarts out of one big country. People may think im an idiot but Im talking from experience here.

Remove the mil/oil/bushels from restarting.
Goods on the market are lost.
Reduce tech kept on the restart
Increase CS
Keep buildings and land given the same.
Reduce cash given on restart.

It takes longer to get moving, but those in established tags can set up FA to make up for lost Mil and get back to hitting.

well then restart should need normal 100 turns to get oop not 15 since w/o anything gotten from old country not much can be built in 15 turns (besides cs's).

Eliminate, and.....


Eliminate!

I'm going to disagree on some of these for 1 reason. If the restart bonus exists, big netters who get blindsided should benefit from their efforts.

I completely agree, the bonus is OP... But think about back in the day, just netting, and getting smoked out of. No where by someone like Sof or SOL or IX. How might wars have turned if the biggest deaths from FS can oop useful?

Mil/food/oil -
Military needs to be completely rethought. We were coming back with 10 to 30m jets. That's absurd.
Food and oil are where a netter puts all of their production. Completely removing these items from the bonus makes the FS OP again. I think adding a ceiling would be more appropriate. Say, the lesser of x% owned at death and NW at death. This introduces may help keep restart vs FS balanced, while adding strategic elements for both attacker and defender.

Goods on market - again, i wouldnt completely remove, but getting bonus for having on market is easily abused. Having same % for onhand vs on market seems reasonable to me.

This makes more sense regardless of whether you get a bonus. More time between death and oop takes power from unconventional attackers.

It is my opinion that any sort of game change suggestion that reduces a players ability to actually play the game should not even be considered.

thats why instead of getting a higher percentage of goods as defends go up it should start off higher and go down

so that a chem rush kill gets the most back because someone died in only 50 chems and didnt get a chance to use any of their resources being blindsided as a netter

instead someone whos a perfect waller and spends all their turns at a favourable turn ratio of as much as 3.4:1 plus more for dh's, and spends all their resources burning resources of attackers at 2:1 ratio with oversends and med then gets rewarded with bonus resources just because of turns run and hits taken

That would have played even more beautifully in to our hands last reset Enshula. No need for SDI and keep ebough troops/turrets to avoid being grabbed too much. Force a chem kill and keep a big percentage of jets.

If you want to nerf 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th restart runs then military has to be done away with on restart.

its not about starting at 100% and dropping to 0%

right now get a minimum + an amount

min=20
min + small = chem 23%
min + normal = nonchem 35%
min + wall = waller 41%+
add 30% to each number for goods on market
so a waller gets maybe 75% plus of their unspent stock back

instead it could be

max=50
max - small 50hits= chem 47%
max - normal 250hits= nonchem 35%
max - wall 350plufluffs= waller 29%-
a flat 30% gain to market feels a bit high, id suggest putting a penalty on it based on how many special attacks a country has done recently

assume 216 base turns in 72 hours with perhaps min of 18 extra for bonuses at 234 total, 702 readiness, 100 and a bit total attacks, if the 30% was reduced by a percentage of how many hits a country was doing you could simplify it to .3% less on market per hit in last 72 hours, the only 'problem' with that is suiciders dont really need to do a lot of hits compared to warriors, and if you tried to make a formula for making ss/ps reduce it more netters who were landgrabbing before being blindsided could have been doing 25 hits a day

i wouldnt even hate the idea of modifying the chem number based on sdi to penalise getting sdi a little less

or just straight counting succesful chems at about triple the rate would drop it to 41% max, putting it no higher than an average waller of 350 defends would get currently

edited because its 20% base now not 40%

I see your point but any sort of mimitary bonus will help suiciders. Any bonus will be used to maximise damage on restart.

Even boost the number of CS buildings and tech. It means that suiciders are nerfed but restarts for war can get on their feet very quickly.

theres no reason that the bonus cant have a negative factor based on amount of special attacks either done in the whole set or done in the last 72 hours

that would have the further effect of reducing anyone who isnt blindsided getting as much gains

for example imagine similar numbers to above but every 100 special attacks youve done either the whole set or last 72 hours reduces your restart amount by 6% or a higher amount

even a sliding scale would be good of say .05% .1% .2% for wholeset/72h/24h

the only downside is people participating in a kill for a good reason whos alliance got blindsided in war the next day would get less, but thats a bit of an edge case

I like the idea of keeping more buildings/CS as a restart and reducing the military/other goods you start with.

Right now the building restart rate is pitiful and practically forces restarts into trying to stock steal (or get FA) as a mode of production.

Is there anyone that can model out examples? I am not at all familiar enough with the bonus to say what percent is appropriate in any circumstance. I can talk generalities based upon experience but at some point we need real numbers.

Its asking a lot, but maybe someone has already done it?

Is there any excel based approximation? We could build a hypothetical netter vs guerilla and analyze outcome based upon current mechanics, then tinker to produce more palatable results?

Real scenarios are much more digestible...

Ask my stick!













Celphi incase you're wondering :-)

squirrel its not really complex enough a spreadsheet would help much

its just

20% base
6% bonus per 100 hits
30% extra bonus for stuff on market

ffa has a 40% base so youd literally lose 0 on market if your country had 500 defends

i know people like to boost 1 country all set there and other people kill the boosted ones before they jump, but if you did about 250 hits on your own country and they took 250 to kill youd lose 0 stock

the land/buildings %s are lower, though, right? and CS is based on number of turns elapsed in the set?

It's hard to say without testing it imo.

I went to 1700 defends on 1a this set. I started at a lower nw presumably because of tech??????

I had more acres, more of which were built and about 10bpt higher than I had. My stock didn't seem to grow much but it definitely ticked upward.

I guess my main point is somehow it still had less nw than my original at 1700 defends. I dont think you get EVERYTHING back at 100%+. Some things are still affected. It might just be military and stock and not tech or something.

Also, since I was taking a combo of br and gs it's hard to say I would have gained any if it was just gs.

You should just test it for us, enshula, on ffa. I'm down to exploit it if you prove you can gain off it and then someone will get rid of it if we win a set by killing ourselves 20 times.

there are alpha servers for this very reason that anyone can switch to (bottom right corner of the server portal page)

I forgot alpha had restart bonuses. Are they equal to ffa?