Go!


I'm not sure what I'm doing yet, i haven't done a Demo-Farmer in a while and had fun when I did, might go that route, take a break from techer, actually, I'll commit now....

Going Farmer this round to give myself a break from techer.

You should try Fascist instead of demo, we need some more oil so it doesn't go to $5-600 + with three weeks left like it always does

Techer again...

Commie Indie!

I don't know how to play that strat, what is it.... 70/30 80/20?

I don't know probably somewhere in that range, I know I spied Tmac's dangling dingleberries a couple rounds ago and he had 10k rigs on 54.5k acres but he or others can likely confirm how to play the ratio

It depends on your plan. If you're asking so you get the right ratio for a full oil destock it's about 1.8:1 farm:rig ratio(7.74:1 bushel:barrel). I usually go less rigs because it's hard to sell too much oil early on and I go with a hybrid destock which takes less oil. I'll gladly help walk you through it if you wanted =)

Thanks for the offer, I'll stick with Demo-Farmer for now but I'll probably take you up on it 2at some point that I'll have the time to invest in properly playing it, maybe in late fall (northern hemisphere) i can give it a go :-)

Ill run techer again one day try to run something different haha

I'm contemplating demo casher.

Prob inferior to Rep casher but.. wonder if worth a try. Wonder how it fairs vs theo casher?

Was thinking of going farmer but KoHearts will likely do a better job, might try techer.

I think last time I ran the calcs, demo casher for all-x is only like 3-5% less efficient than rep casher, which means if you think you can make that up with market play it's a good deal. If you don't play the market or want to grab a bit, rep is probably better. Theo casher is way less efficient at the end set, but at low tech levels is very competitive and can be better if you're going to grab a lot and grow faster than your tech can keep up. It can also allow for cheaper PM military if prices get too high too.

When you say "theo casher is way less efficient at the end set", did you take into account the cheaper PM military for destock? (Given that the standard casher destock on this server is to just buy troops/tanks on PM.)

3-5% less efficient is a lot closer than expected. I feel like I might be able to extract that value from the market. (Does saving 6% commissions all set mean I get that 3-5% back?)

I would argue that Demo and Theo casher are likely both much less efficient over a whole set versus a standard Rep casher

Demo three turns per attack equals 15 turns for every 5 PS, where as a rep can do 5 PS in 10 turns and then explore the other 5 turns. plus demo commission bonus isn't as significant for casher as it would be for farmer or techer who rely on market sales for income

I think if you look back through eestats the most top cashers are all rep. also the Rep bonuses are tailor made for casher, and the explore bonus early on in Primary is huge

I don't know that the private market sell price is a big disadvantage as a Rep I got my PM troops cost down to 121 for my jump plus I get higher tech as rep vs theo and also the PCI bonus at 90-140 mil NW becomes a stronger advantage as well for the endgame

Another reason I would prefer Rep is that the Theo end game will be very expensive for food when food on this server always goes to 50-65 towards the end of the casher land grab phase

My comments were specifically from a stocking perspective; how you destock may alter that. In the days before bonuses, it wasn't too big of a deal to grab as a theo casher and then when you get to your target size, sell down, switch to rep and cash, then possibly switch again to demo or theo for the destock. Now that you have bonuses to lose for each govt switch, that's a lot less beneficial.

Theo casher is waaay less efficient during end set cashing. It really only shines at low tech levels (like early set and extensive grabbing where your tech per acre is lower anyhow). If you were doing -expense bonus and buying up your PM for an extended period of time (which is really efficient from a stock->NW perspective but limits stocking benefits as expenses go up), then you would need to have some significant bonus because carrying those military costs over a thousand turns is a huge impact. It may depend on the market though (volume and costs for when you want to jump if buying publicly) and whether you'd prefer to cash to the last minute and do an oil destock (not efficient on stock->NW but most efficient for time to jump).

Demo casher numbers already include commission savings for stocking and destocking, but I doubt I included purchasing tech and military commission cost, I'd have to go back and really analyze some old spreadsheets, but the difference of tech/military cost should be minor except if you're going really heavy per acre or very large land goals (quick estimate, if you were doing 40 tech per acre for both bus/res and paid an average price of 3k over the course of the set and grew to 50k acres, 6% commissions would cost you an extra 720M cash: at 50k acres, that's only a matter of turns cashing). Once again, the difference is focused on the stocking potential. If you wanted to do a public market demo destock, that may sway your choice, but if you're grabbing extensively to higher acres, that may too. If you're just doing a few PS and would need to regain readiness and like having max mil strat, that's another option to consider.

Yeah it's interesting to look at how the different govs compare from a stocking perspective or from a server perspective

I just try to copy those who have had great success and I try not to reinvent the wheel personally

If I wanted to play Indy I would go communist, I've never played a techer in Primary but I would guess that a demo might be best for techer, I'd go with a fascist for farmer, and a rep when I play casher

Doing tech start. PM me!

Thanks Tertius and Rocky! Yea, I'm basically convinced at this point demo casher not even worth trying and to just play Rep Casher. lol

Might be going for commie again, but cumorah is back.. anyone else besides koh going for farmer?

I was considering going farmer, but undecided.

I think I will try a fascist farmer oiler if KoH is going to go with demo farmer

2 big farmers is usually enough, but if one decides to stock it's not(like I did a couple sets ago, lol ). Also, one could end up in a war. I like seeing at least 3 big countries for each strat except oiler. One good ffo will guarantee a reasonable oil supply when you add in all the extra rigs that smaller countries tend to have.

I'll do my usual and fill in on any strat that looks thin. If they're all covered I'll go indy or casher.

If a Dem casher had full Bus/Res/Mil tech and no market cost wouldn't that mean an overall better cash flow/destock than Rep? Assuming it's not all-x, we're talking cash advantage not xplore bonus.

Yeah Demo Farmer.


Any farmers doing tech phase? I have fluffs wide open :P

I have no idea, but I would guess that the Rep per capita income advantage of 20% is significant enough to offset the tech advantages of demo

Also the commission bonus is essentially a non issue because you can still do your end game networth jump commission free entirely off your Private Market as a Repub

Rep casher still has about 10-11% higher income than demo casher even at very high tech levels.

Demo would have like 2% cheaper private market and 2% lower expenses, and no commissions. These things together doesn't nearly put the demo ahead, and in the early stages of the game a demo/monarchy is just bad compared to republic. Tech start might be decent but I have tried monarchy cash start and it feels horribly bad. I did monarchy cash start into dict casher that time.

The very early stages of the game might not matter much in the long run. And it's possible that the extra military power of demo (no govt penalty+ better weaps tech) and higher MStrat will make for enough benefit in the grabbing phase that we as a demo arrive larger to the stocking phase which could make up this lower income possibly. I have a hard time seeing that as possible tho unless the DG 'tag' saves you from some grabs or retals that your RG 'tag' would have suffered. Math suggests that Demo casher needs to be around 107% of the acreage of the Rep for equal purchase power if buying on the private market, and more like 103% if buying military on the public market.
Most of the time when jumping I buy 80-95% of my military on the private market in primary, so my guess is that the acreage of pairity would be closer to the higher number, 107%. It is a stretch to assume that a demo could grab that much better, to overcome the bad income at the start, the 3 turn attack, the low explores and still come out 5-7% larger by the end of grabbing.

This will be my first set in a long time (8 years I think). I got warmed up in Express. I'm doing a tech start into something undecided at this point. I'd love to have some defense or tech allies though as I am unfamiliar with who the better players are at this point.

Yeah the no commissions means that for total stock, they get 6% savings, which puts your numbers pretty similar to that 3-5% I mentioned. That could depend on how you use bonuses and if you're actually stocking or not, but those have some risks and other considerations. It's really hard to beat the explore bonus early set though, and rep casher is the typical default unless you want to do some nuanced play to try and overcome it.

Thanks Gerd!

Hmm do we know if anyone has successfully.. single handedly manipulated/controlled the primary market as a large demo? Just curious if anyone has done it successfully.

When I first rejoined primary couple of sets, I think I played a 3k acre demo techer (just to look at the market) and did push food to over $100 for like 5 days or something (felt like it barely took 2b to buy up all the food?), but couldn't really sustain it. (I think everyone started building farms once they overflowed turns?)

I'm going Casher with a Tech-start. Hit me up if you're interested in teaming up this set.

Doing a CI tech start, PM me if you want to ally up

If you are running techer this set send me a tech alliance have two slots open

NitelL

I feel like a demo manipulating the market only really works on servers where you have bot accounts who make stupid decisions when buying things. I've been messing around in express the last two rounds and I can buy tech for $2000 and re-sell it for $7-8000 a tech point early on which you can't do in Primary without bots

As an Indy on this server if food is over $100 for a couple days and you needed to play turns you would build farms, and if you were a casher or techer you would hold turns until food got cheaper, or just play the bare minimum of turns and put up standing orders for cheaper food

Also a lot of rainbows on this server will likely also build farms (regardless of their government or build) if food goes really expensive like that and the farmers who are benefitting from your market manipulation will also grow larger and produce a lot more food as well

Welcome back!




Doable, especially if other farmers are hoarding, last time I've seen this was in 2014-15 with bigger base though, back when Crest23 played Demo-Farmer he got really big and used the market to push up prices, i used to talk to him during games, fun times, he was excellent player.

Theo?

Demo. Are you teching? Pm

Hmmm we have LB, tworod, cumorah and mother earth commie this round.. if I add on to commie list, it will be 5.. wonder if that's too many..

Seems like there's not too many chefs at the food section.. might be going farmer if no other big veterans going for farmer to balance out the pricing

Go farmer, we need cheap food, like 2 bucks a bushel!:)

Sounds like me, KoH, and Rocky are all going farmer. Not TMac big, but some veterans that will likely keep up with the market if TMac thinks 2 big ones are usually enough.

I've had almost as much land as Tmac the last two rounds :)

Definitely too many Commies!!!

Also SuperFly. So there is already 5.

Yeah 5 vets CI, looks like it'll be a good casher set lol

Techer could be good as well

Looks like lots of farmers too

I R WoG SuperFly (#25) - commie Indy doing tech start here looking for tech ally

I need tech start allies as well, PM me if anyone is still looking

Haven't done a tech start in the last three rounds so it is time to give it a shot

hi anyone else needs some allies.

im doing some tech start + need def/intel allies

I could still use an intel ally, msg me

Is #60 called Z because they support Russia? Interesting choice.

And... the markets are empty.