So you are blaming others from the failings of a server that never worked to begin with?

PP: it's not hard to do a little research and ask around about who's in a given alliance. I find it hilarious that you picked PDM because of 1 member, but apparently don't know who else plays in the group that is slaughtering your entire server. I came out of complete earth retirement for this set for fluffs and giggles, and you've given me more of an excuse to play. For that, I thank you.

Apologising to all the people in PDM you just pissed off for something that's not even anything to do with us would be a good start.

Hitting the people and alliances who actually ARE a large amount of the membership of TSO would be a good follow up. It really ISN'T that hard. get someone who is non tso ordinarily to go join TSO to find out who's playing there. then you have a TSO userlist. watch AT etc for a few days after that to get a feel for where people play.

You've even been told repeatedly where you will find other members of TSO, and yet STILL nothing has happened. Either you ahve more of a hardon with PDM than you are willing to admit, or you really are a complete moron.

Do some research, get your facts straight, THEN go hit people if you feel you really must.

Terror, who did he want to self delete? I'm beyond curious about what you lunatics want and why.

i approve almost all app's no one joins who i dont talk to or know ;)

and again, ONE member of PDM plays it TSO it turns out.

We were never approached with any suggestions to alter anyone's behavior. PDM as an institution will never attempt to affect anyone's behavior on any server though (except for in cases where cross-server stuff is brought to us). In PDM you can be a murderer in real life, and while we won't condone or encourage that behavior, as long as you abide by PDM's alliance server rules we won't tell you how you have to be.

I miss my chats with you Drow.

I am thinking PP may have possibly done more research on these matters, but either his patience or possibly his resources were limited.

Most of us would like to see better sportsmanship across all servers. Unfortunately there is no way to redesign game code for that. Having one player that misbehaves isn't too bad in the grand scheme. Saying it's ok because he's only one is awful--as though any wrongdoing is acceptable as long as there is someone worse than you to point a finger at.

PDM might not be the worst offender, but they might have more power to fix the problem than anyone else. Assigning blame doesn't solve problems. Changing behavior will. That is my point.

Also, it is a lot easier to control your own behavior than someone else's.

Message me for a chat sometime Drow.

Nope. Two members, one of whom is a leader.

As for asking around: well we've been asking your leaders for this famous members list so we can improve our targeting instead of getting this whining from the next clan as well but it hasn't been forthcoming. What do you think the logical solution is?

--------------
And just to clarify - I'm not saying suiciding PDM was the wrong decision like Balin is implying. I'm saying suiciding PDM was the less right decision versus suiciding some other clans in retrospect. Unfortunately, we still don't know who these clans are (even though PDM could tell us), it's almost as if though PDM wants us to keep hitting them.

we do PP, we do, its fun now
Feb 11/12 1:25:36 AM CM Next Rounds on Johnny (#121) (Paradigm) Sick and Dying (#362) (AOE) 14 C/1 B

Locket:

I am not a former iMagger, I've been pretty vocally against iMag for ages.

Where were we when RD was doing 1:kill? We (a group including toma and myself) were suiciding RD on team.

Where were we when WoG/FBI started messing with the server? The same group hit the clans in team and LCN in alliance (in response to something FBI might have done)

We've opposed every large group on the server that we thought was unreasonable, and not just groups that worked against us. We had beef with WoG in defense of MKR and were hitting RD despite the fact that none of them had killed our countries.

PP: you've just been told that archaic no longer plays in tso. that meanse Elves is the ONLY PDM'er actively playing there. next, the contact page for TSO has been linked, IN THIS VERY THREAD! ask around for where those members play on alliance. don't just jump to conclusions man...

Terror, as I said, only just came out of retirement bud, been busy with work, school and getting remarried etc. I'll drop you a forum inbox though.

Detmer: In my personal experience, if you are a murderer, that is grounds to cut you loose. I hired a convicted murderer to strip and paint my garage doors. I paid him $12 an hour for his feeble efforts for 5 hours, and gave him a couple beers while he worked. I paid him $60 cash and that very same night he broke down my back door and stole $3000 of computer equipment while I was walking his girlfriend home from my neighbor's birthday party.

I was a fool. Some people have bad character and it should not be defended. That you do makes your own reputation suffer at best. (I think very highly of you.) At worst it lowers your own character. When you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

TSO contacts page for Drow

50/50 chance of getting PDM based on this info

"Contact Info

President: Boltar
Vice Pres: elvesrus
Contact elvesrus on IRC in #earthempires"

We won't give you the list (even thought Elverus knows) because we don't want to help suiciders in anyway, we may let known suiciders play in our tag as a ditch effort and offering of redemption to them (because everyone deserves a second chance), but we won't help them when their sole intention is to harm others for little to no reason.

PDM is a council alliance and we don't sensor so our members have different opinions on how we should deal with this oop war/suicide that screwed our heavy CS start ups, however, as long as most disagree with your actions you won't be getting anything from us.

drow, we do have 2 in PDM, not counting archiac. theres also a name missing from that contact page. the one that wrote the declaration on team server this set.

also I'm not giving out a user list. you've been told the short list of places you wont find TSO members. if they want to reveal themselves to the masses that's their choice, but I'm not going to be responsible for outing them.

I see LCN get thrown out as a source and then I see LCN come to deny it. Pretty sure if I messaged NeoFed now I'd get a "more victims than members" response. Can you, as a leader in TSO, just post a definitive list for me now, with emphasis on those clans with more than just 2/3 people?

edit: just to give me something to go on that's not cluttered by the crap in this thread

On that note about LCN, I hate how their very senior play team/primary to just fluff stuff up but how they up in arms they get when they get suicided on alliance. Random rant :P

Back in the day trolling meant something.

Balin is a saint and has massive testicles

Why is team chat stuff being talked about on alliance? Boogles me.

um, you have a little more than lcn denying it. you have de1i, who was the one who threw lcn out as a source, admitting he did it as a joke. you have boltar, the leader of tso, saying no one from lcn is in tso. what more do you need?

Ruining peoples fun for no reason is okay, but ruining it for a reason I disagree with isn't okay. Never change, community.

he's going to say he needs a full list, which he wont get from me, and thanks to this stunt that list is growing

First of all, confirmed.

Second of all, Terror, although this situation involves a few different aspects of PDM's policy — not the least of which being our longstanding commitment to not meddling with other servers that we don't play on — you want to hone in on ethics.

Can we at least distinguish sportsmanship in a text-based browser game from issues of real-world morality and human welfare? I don't take you for a guy who only values absolutes, so please consider the situation from our perspective.

The overwhelming majority of PDM had never heard of TSO before today. Team is almost never mentioned on our forums, as we play on the Alliance server. Our introduction to the Team server's plight came today, along with a volley of indiscriminate suicide attacks.

PP waged a misinformed jihad with demands that were themselves steeped in poor sportsmanship. He asked us for two of our members (only one of whom plays in TSO) to self-delete on another server, under threat of continued abuse of innocents in our tag. The 'reward' for capitulating to his demands would be that, in his words, we could two-step the suiciders after they grabbed other clans.

My code of sportsmanship does not include allowing my allies in this game to be hit for unrelated reasons from another game that I don't play or care about. In the same way that I don't care in the slightest about abuses and injustices on, say, Mars 2025, I really can't sympathize with PP's cause here either.

Was it ethical for PP to suicide on PDM without trying to achieve his goals diplomatically? I have to wonder what a simple PM or forum post might have achieved in terms of winning favor. As it stands, the net result is that a significant number of uninvolved players actively want to join the gangbang against whatever it is PP stands for.

And PP, do you really think I'm going to give you a members list for TSO after you suicided on my alliance on such thin grounds? That is just comical.

PDM's official position is that we will kill every country that suicides on us, and we will happily help other alliances kill any other anti-TSO suiciders. You squandered your opportunity to find supporters on this server. Go talk to the admins about your problems.

Hm, just skimmed through this thread and I see the same garbage PDMers randomly bringing me up and insulting me. So is this a correct cause for suiciding? It's not cross server, right? I also don't remember any sympathy from PDM when EVO was getting suicided on.

I think it might be worth joining the suiciders, how do I sign up?

Go for it, Slagpit. You sign up by hitting one of our countries.

Never change, troll.

edit: did a Control-F for your name on this thread, and the only person insulting you was de1i. Your erection for PDM precedes you!

you obviously didn't do a very good job if you think the 1 (ONE) mention of your name was from a PDM member before balin mentioned it just now

hey what is TSO? Im new to this game

Breaking news, Balin is fluffing dumb:



Don't worry bro, I won't hit your country. No point on suiciding someone who will just get FAed into the top ten anyway.

My god, dude. Let me go find and resurrect that hugs thread Trife started for you. You're a shoe-in for PDM's "Doug Memorial Sensitivity Award" this set.

I've personally helped kill suiciders on Evo so I know we're done more than show sympathy. That being said, qz put some hits in on a suicider we had last round. Not everything needs to have multiple layers of political revenge behind it, eh?

I thought archaic was talking about me...? I thought I was the monkey in a cage forced to code the game while you all throw peanuts at me....??

de1i did not insult me. You and archaic did.

Be on the lookout for me this set.

Go fling your poo at someone who cares.

push out the jive, bring in the love, Slag!

We can certainly distinguish sportsmanship from a text based browser game from real life to an extent. These demonstrations may be pale shadows of our true selves, but as small as that might seem it is still the time of our lives and it is real.

Your commitment to whole-heartedly support TSO because your against its primary opponent is both a logical and a moral fallacy. What you seem to be supporting is a strong resistance to change. Members of PDM are supporting rampant bullying and from Detmer even murder in the name of doing things as they have always been done.

Is it possible that PDM could benefit from a little introspection? Some suggest that team server is broken because of bad coding. No. It's not bad coding. It's bad people. Pang can't fix them.

All those who think alliance server stands completely independently of the other servers is foolish. Those who think that alliance server is the only one that counts is arrogant.

What needs to happen for the benefit of the entire earth community is for each player to respect all the subcommunities and their players so that those communities can function as they were designed.

that's still only PDMer singular, not plural. also your name wasn't mentioned in that post...

WHAT IS TSO

I believe it's Tesoro Corporation, Reckless.

my bad on the alliance bit then :P But why did you choose to hit RD there when they used their actual alliance tag but hit PDM here when it was a mixture and they were under some TSO tag? Meh no point continuing anyways.

Aren't you in the same clan as him? -_-

And I am still Salty about that. I apply to FBI, get accepted, and you all quit.

Was because I created a country named Bushwood Country Club?

TSO is a group of war oriented players looking for fun and glory on the smallest pond this game has to offer.

Slagpit wtf!!!

has anyone said anything about him at all? go and troll somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.




Running peoples fun for revenge is acceptable, getting revenge on the wrong people is stupid.

I had no sympathy left for EVO because in less than 2 weeks of playing this game you had indirectly called me a retard 3 times, because I was playing FFA, and insulted friends for no apparent reason, so If LaF says they are killing EVO because you are a troll, then I can relate to that, not support nor condone, just plain old indifference.

Also it may be hard to believe for your silly self slagpit, but Balin didn't get FA, he just maxed decay, sold his stock at peak $51 and kept selling all the way down getting around 60B cash on hand by the time of his jump, not to mention the entry bar was super low last set.

I used to kill people in express who double tapped me.

Wait... i still do that.

What resistance to change is this? There is no resistance to change... you are making no sense... We are opposed to those who have come here specifically to harm us for things we have not done to them.... I support murder? Are you out of your mind? I explicitly said PDM is an alliance-server-only-entity and that we don't judge people based on what they do anywhere other than alliance server. In contradiction to that I did say PDM does not condone murder but that further counters your point (if you assume I make PDM policy at times). I definitely am opposed to murder... why do you tarnish your argument with bizarre lies?



The team server is broken because of a flawed player base. It has been that way since before TSO and it will be after. Lunatics like the cross-server-vigilante-suicide-cult is a further testament to that.



Alliance server stands independent. It is not the only server that counts but it is independent, as all servers are independent from one another.



Agreed. If you are one of the suiciders then I have a kettle to introduce you to.

CW, don't bother engaging Slagpit. He is just a troll... I already told PP that if they had just done this because this was their way of having fun, that would have been annoying but justifiable. It is the cross-server grudge aspect of it that makes it indefensible.

Well both of PDM's "co-directors" are insulting me now. That means I have a just cause to suicide PDM, right?



Are you trying to convince me to suicide on Sir Balin?

...we have a Team Server?

slag, the way you're acting I'm not surprised that the co-directors are co-attacking you.

like i said... push out the jive, bring in the love.

Oh man I forgot about your forgettable troll thread:

http://forums.earthempires.com/...gpit-now-netting-with-pdm

Talk about having an erection for someone, right?

I was hit and I didn't attack anyone or insult anybody.

If you have the balls then show yourselves. If not, its a weak move.