Round 596 (04/28/2021) Talk - Earth Empires Forum

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 4:08:06

Use this thread to talk about everything and anything that has to do with round 596. Recall that this round brings the return of defensive and intelligence ingame allies. Feel free to post here if you're looking for allies. If you're a new member who can't figure out how to post on the forums, please send me a private message and I will upgrade your access.

Good luck everyone!

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 4:10:23

What's everybody playing? Looks like last round we had too many players pick techer. Five of them in the top ten even after a bunch dropped out.

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2021, 4:18:21

I'll give Demo-Farmer a go.

I'm the Exotic Terrane of Siletzia country :-)

Mess with me you better kill me, or I'll just take your pride & joy and jack it up
(•_•)

https://youtu.be/...pxFw4?si=mCDXT3t1vmFgn0qn

-=TSO~DKnights~ICD~XI~LaF~SKA=-

S.F. Giants 2010, 2012, 2014 World Series Champions, fluff YEAH!

SuperFly

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Apr 26th 2021, 4:19:47

KoH Bro ally me up for intel! I R WoG SuperFly Gang #2

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2021, 4:22:43

Originally posted by SuperFly:

KoH Bro ally me up for intel! I R WoG SuperFly Gang #2

Sure thing!

Rob

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Apr 26th 2021, 6:33:24

I'll go casher.
So i guess its going to be an epic tech round lol

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2021, 8:57:35

Molotov's revenge!

Penguinbeng

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Apr 26th 2021, 9:11:44

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

KoH Bro ally me up for intel! I R WoG SuperFly Gang #2

Sure thing!

Should the 3 of us just all name our countries I R WoG Superfly Gang and ally each other? Is that collusion? *winks*

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2021, 9:13:37

Originally posted by Penguinbeng:

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Originally posted by SuperFly:

KoH Bro ally me up for intel! I R WoG SuperFly Gang #2

Sure thing!

Should the 3 of us just all name our countries I R WoG Superfly Gang and ally each other? Is that collusion? *winks*

Technically it would be collusion, but not a deletable offense :P

Tmac

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Apr 26th 2021, 12:21:23

I think I'll go indy this time.

NitelL

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Apr 26th 2021, 13:34:24

I'm leaning on demo farmer.

Epic tech set coming upppppppp

Molotov

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Apr 26th 2021, 16:26:54

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Molotov's revenge!

I hate to do the same strat multiple times in a row but it looks like everything else is getting claimed, so guess I gotta!

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 17:19:50

Originally posted by Molotov:

Originally posted by KoHeartsGPA:

Molotov's revenge!

I hate to do the same strat multiple times in a row but it looks like everything else is getting claimed, so guess I gotta!

My advice is to play whatever sounds like the most fun. If you find winning to be the most fun, then I suggest indy, casher, or farmer. My prediction for the current era is that any of those strats will be able to score a win in nearly every round. That was certainly true last round. Techer will only sometimes be able to get a win. With that said, the tech market will be different starting next round in ways that cannot be fully predicted.

It's true that a single player with a great country can move the market a bit against him, the situation isn't as dire as it is in Primary. We have 50 NPC countries that contribute quite a bit to the market. The NPC countries never get discouraged and quit. It's also just a one week round, so if you pick the wrong strat, you don't pay for it for two months.

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 17:20:57

I am looking for a defensive ally. I usually have high defense compared to the rest of you clowns. Might be a bit turn delayed at the start if that matters to you.

EDIT: full

Edited By: Slagpit on Apr 28th 2021, 15:00:23
See Original Post

Molotov

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Apr 26th 2021, 17:35:19

If techer is as non-viable as you suspect it will be, will future changes try to tweak it back into relevance?

Gerdler

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Apr 26th 2021, 17:52:12

I've looked at the new code and in relation to the old code it does seem like techer would be slightly worse off. But it has a lot to do with what players do.

I suspect that since techer has been by far the best strat in express for what 5 years or something like that there are a lot of players who are stuck in this old thinking and some might not even read the boards to know that something has changed.
Some will adapt before changes, some will adapt after 10 sets, but by the time they have all adapted is the time to make balance changes if the balance is still off.

Techer has been the best strat by far for at least 200 of the last 250 resets so if it is not the best strat for 10-20 resets that is not all terrible IMO...

I have heard time and time again on this board that I can't play anything other than a techer selling tech at $4000 to the bots. Wouldn't mind hearing their silence for a while and then seeing how long it takes for them to suggest I can't play techer.

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 18:36:06

Originally posted by Molotov:

If techer is as non-viable as you suspect it will be, will future changes try to tweak it back into relevance?

28/46 humans played techer last round. 60% is crazy to me. I think the market is signaling that too many countries are playing techer.

Kahuna

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Apr 26th 2021, 19:24:41

I knew it. No wonder the tech market was crap. Prolly in FFA too?

Molotov

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Apr 26th 2021, 19:28:08

Originally posted by Slagpit:

Originally posted by Molotov:

If techer is as non-viable as you suspect it will be, will future changes try to tweak it back into relevance?

28/46 humans played techer last round. 60% is crazy to me. I think the market is signaling that too many countries are playing techer.

Oh of course, the market shouldn't support that many techers. It was silly how tech prices were always so high no matter how many people played techer before.

KoHeartsGPA

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Apr 26th 2021, 19:44:17

Originally posted by Kahuna:

I knew it. No wonder the tech market was crap. Prolly in FFA too?

Stop building rainbow techers!!!!

n00blet

:P

Slagpit

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Apr 26th 2021, 19:50:09

NitelL told me that he's running a commie techer this round so he can depress tech prices even more efficiently than the other techers.

HEMPMAN1

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Apr 28th 2021, 15:01:46

Def and Intel allies needed.. pm me if interested..

cordycsw

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Apr 28th 2021, 16:01:31

hi guys

Edited By: cordycsw on Apr 29th 2021, 15:24:50
See Original Post

cordycsw

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Apr 28th 2021, 16:01:59

will try out indy. im not very sure how to play this well lol

Celphi

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Apr 28th 2021, 18:23:30

The reasoning for so many techers is because everyone prob noticed the high prices on the last day of the previous set.

In addition to that,. it's like the most over powered strat on this server. No idea why min tech price is 1k. $750 would seem far more reasonable. Nor should bots be buying $4k+ tech. Even as a human player I would never spend that much for tech on EXPRESS.

Now that the only perk of going non-gdi was taken away (ie 10% penalty bonus) it's like pointless to ever go non-gdi. Which makes the demand for troops/tanks & any other war techs almost completely worthless.

Which is strange, because you'd think the strategy which carry the most risk would offer the greatest reward.

The strat of playing reseller is basically obsolete as well.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Gerdler

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Apr 28th 2021, 19:54:48

You have not played Express for a while...

galleri

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Apr 28th 2021, 19:58:39

Yeah Celphi...
Gerdler is correct ...there has been a ton of changes.

https://gyazo.com/...b3bb28dddf908cdbcfd162513

Kahuna: Ya you just wrote the fkn equation, not helping me at all. Lol n I hated algebra.

Slagpit

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Apr 28th 2021, 20:06:55

Originally posted by cordycsw:

will try out indy. im not very sure how to play this well lol

The most important things are to sell your military at a price that it will sell and to buy tech early.

Slagpit

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Apr 28th 2021, 20:11:37

NPC countries will buy tech that they expect to be profitable over time period. Tech at $10000 can be profitable even on Express. Currently they aren't programmed to avoid buying tech in order to spite techers.

Tmac

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Apr 28th 2021, 20:16:02

Originally posted by Slagpit:

Originally posted by cordycsw:

will try out indy. im not very sure how to play this well lol

The most important things are to sell your military at a price that it will sell and to buy tech early.

Selling at a price that will sell is a fluff.

Gerdler

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Apr 28th 2021, 20:25:20

Originally posted by Celphi:

Nor should bots be buying $4k+ tech. Even as a human player I would never spend that much for tech on EXPRESS.

If there was no other tech available cheaper later you would be making a huge mistake.

The payback time for Agri tech as a Fascist farmer is ~100 turns when you are buying your first tech from 100% ->110% at that price.

If you look either at the new bot code or at the changes that have been published for every other express set in the last 2 months or whatever it has been you will see that those issues you have with bots tech buying on express are gone if the code is working as intended.
Not sure what it will lead to, but I think it's impossible for a bot to buy tech at $4k on a Sunday now, and it is more likely that tech prices crash on Sunday, but we will see.

Slagpit

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Apr 28th 2021, 21:13:47

Originally posted by Tmac:

Originally posted by Slagpit:

Originally posted by cordycsw:

will try out indy. im not very sure how to play this well lol

The most important things are to sell your military at a price that it will sell and to buy tech early.

Selling at a price that will sell is a fluff.

Yes it can be quite disheartening at times. Although in my experience, CI is still strong even without the best military prices.

Slagpit

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Apr 28th 2021, 21:17:36

Originally posted by Gerdler:

If you look either at the new bot code or at the changes that have been published for every other express set in the last 2 months or whatever it has been you will see that those issues you have with bots tech buying on express are gone if the code is working as intended.
Not sure what it will lead to, but I think it's impossible for a bot to buy tech at $4k on a Sunday now, and it is more likely that tech prices crash on Sunday, but we will see.

It wasn't impossible for last round. If an NPC country had a really rough time and still had low techs on the final day, it could be willing to spend more than $4k for a tech point. For reference, the top casher was only willing to spent up to $1620 per tech on the final day. It already had bus/res techs at 178%. However, the worst farmer had no tech whatsoever and was willing to pay up to $8739 for agri tech.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 5:15:19

Originally posted by Slagpit:

Wait what?! Are you nuts?!

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 5:18:15

Originally posted by Gerdler:

Originally posted by Celphi:

Nor should bots be buying $4k+ tech. Even as a human player I would never spend that much for tech on EXPRESS.

Gerdler I remember I challenged you before on playing farmer. I seem to recall you played delayed. There's absolutely no reason to buy tech at 4k esp as a farmer & esp with a delayed strat. I think tech is like 4k the first day?? Or are you trying to tell me it's last longer than 700+ turns?

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 5:19:51

I still want Slagpit to show me how buying 10k tech is profitable (TO THE BUYER).

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 5:45:25

The biggest hack on bots is the ability to time when they logged on. A player could set their bus tech for $6/7k or higher wait 5 mins before they logged on and buy out all the cheaper bus tech because the stupid bots would buy the reasonable 2k res but buy the expensive bus tech.

Note: you can switch out bus for res and vice-versa in example above.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Gerdler

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Apr 29th 2021, 9:18:55

Originally posted by Celphi:

Originally posted by Gerdler:

Originally posted by Celphi:

Nor should bots be buying $4k+ tech. Even as a human player I would never spend that much for tech on EXPRESS.

If there was no other tech available cheaper later you would be making a huge mistake.

It's like you ignore the premise. You rightly refuse to buy tech at 4k because you know the price will be lower later. But if you didnt know that it is a very good price to buy the first of your main income techs at. And indeed I pay 4k gladly for income techs in tournament, primary, team even alliance sometimes. The bots dont store turns as much as I do in express, is that a flaw?

I invite you to come play a set instead of talking about how the bots USED to act until like march this year... because they have changed a lot:

https://i.imgur.com/LzblT6Z.png

The best techer last set was beaten by a casher, a farmer AND an indy.

Slagpit

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:02:21

Originally posted by Celphi:

I still want Slagpit to show me how buying 10k tech is profitable (TO THE BUYER).

Do the math yourself instead of insulting me?

Molotov

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:12:33

Originally posted by Gerdler:

The best techer last set was beaten by a casher, a farmer AND an indy.

Way to rub it in! :P But if we get a "Best of Strat" leaderboard........

Gerdler

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:13:34

I wouldn't have finished as well if there were 25 players doing indy last set. :)

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:22:07

Originally posted by Celphi:

Nor should bots be buying $4k+ tech. Even as a human player I would never spend that much for tech on EXPRESS.

Originally posted by Gerdler:

And indeed I pay 4k gladly for income techs in tournament, primary, team even alliance sometimes. The bots dont store turns as much as I do in express, is that a flaw?

Notice how you didnt mention EXPRESS? That's because everyone on the server except the bots know not to buy tech that high. Bots not storing their turns until it's logical to buy tech is a major flaw they have.

It's too easy to program them to hibernate longer if the tech prices are too high.

As for your argument about last set where techers lost to all those other govt types,,. did you happen to miss the # of human techers who played last set that Slagpit posted?

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Molotov

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:31:10

Originally posted by Gerdler:

I wouldn't have finished as well if there were 25 players doing indy last set. :)

Hmm, if you were still the top commie but the other 25 dragged your score down and you couldn't finish in first, getting your "Best of Strat" count incremented by one might be a nice little honorable mention! #ad

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:32:08

@Slagpit I don't even know where to begin with your request. Gerdler is considered one of the top netters on EXPRESS and wouldnt even spend 4k on tech,. so why in the world would you think 10k for a tech point would ever be worth it?

Your suggestion is clearly not for immediate networth so the only possibility you're suggesting is that buying it from the first 100 turns.

So let's entertain your request..
Have your bot buy 1000 tech points for 10k each. That's $10 million cash.
I'll log on the 2nd day and own nearly 3-4x as much as your bot with that same $10mil.

Please explain to me how this makes sense.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Molotov

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:37:06

Celphi you're talking past slagpit's point, which is that tech at that price WILL pay itself back. That's how that makes sense.

To clear things up, perhaps restate your point, which is I believe that instead of acting on what the market actually is, that bots should try to anticipate the future and hold out for better prices

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:44:07

@Molotov

My point is that if the plan is to make the bots more competitive having them buy tech above 4k+ is counterproductive. Just because buying tech at 10k in beginning calculates to be profitable doesn't mean that it should happen. There are far superior paths to achieve greater profitability.

Bots should act on the history of the market not the current market prices.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:49:55

I mean,. why not store the turns / choices made of each player and the ones who finish the best have the bots implement those strategies? Why not use years of market data to help the bots decide when to buy and to decline buying units/tech? All the data is there. Tbh, I don't see why bots are not the best on the server. They can literally do what most humans cannot and that's shear calculate in an instant and hawk the market.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Celphi

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Apr 29th 2021, 14:54:13

@slagpit Why is Alpha Servers now blocked off for players?

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Gerdler

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Apr 29th 2021, 15:04:14

Celphi you seem to be of the opinion that the purpose of bots is to replace the players rather than to serve the players. Strong disagree on that one.

Gerdler

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Apr 29th 2021, 15:08:32

If you make the bots delay like some players (me often for instance) you will often find the market empty early on. Empty food market is fcking cancer to play non-farmer in. Empty tech market because the techers cant get food = more cancer. Empty military market because indies cant get food = further cancer.

What you are suggesting is making the vibrant express market more like the stale and incredibly boring team market which has no liquidity, at least early on.