No sir. We will not continue this over here. Ok?
Thank you.

P.S./edit: You all stop exploiting the forum bug.

Hawk is now supporting Biden?

Get prime not to give out fake nicks to harass me and then have people claim he isnt around and I'll consider it.

fluffing silly fluff.

I guess I have to support him now. Was asked what i would do if he won? Responded with go to work.

Collusion delete em galleri.

aye aye captain.

I just find it interesting that mail in ballots are still showing up in swing states and are all being tallied for Biden... More votes than registered voters.... I think the trumpet was correct for the past two years, mail in = fraud.

GITEM

You talking about that QAnon facebook meme that says more more people voted than registered in Wisconsin, KoH? I seen that going around and imma offer you this slick opportunity to fact check yourself.

elections.wi.gov actually has a resource of the number of registered voters in each election. If you are talking about the fake news meme I've seen, it says there were 3,129,000 registered voters and 3,239,920 voted. According to elections.wi.gov, there was 3,129,000 people registered for the 2018 midterm elections, but as of November 1st, 2020, they had 3,684,726 registered voters according to government data.

I could see how someone would make the mistake tho. I love when the QAnon bullfluff can actually be wrong based on data.

On another note, left to count in PA is almost all military and provisional ballots. Here on PA when you voted in the primary election, there was a box to check if you wanted to automatically be mailed a ballot for the general election. Lots of people checked this box because it was before Trump started attempting to kill mail in with rhetoric. But then, tossed the mail in ballot and went and voted in person because trump started saying not to file mail in ballots. That was, in theory, primarily republicans. And they all had to file provisional ballots because they'd already requested mail in. So we have something like 112,000 election day provisional ballots that could, in theory, slant towards Trump. Still wanna stop counting? Also, on the democrat state tip, the reason why we are still counting is because my Republican state legislature ruled that we could not start opening and counting ballots until election day in my state with a Republican legislative branch that voted Republican 4 years ago. Sorry for the delay! These provisionals might give you some hope this morning tho. They're slower to come in tho because you have to make sure each person didn't also file a mail in ballot so they couldn't be started until after those were completed.

It is funny that Trump told all his people not to vote mail in because it's a fraud and then they didn't mail in while democrats fully dont believe a word the man says and voted mail in. Who couldda predicted that? Rofl. Arizona has always had a very Republican friendly mail in ballot program. And it's good to see a state juxtaposed against the others moving the opposite direction.

What about Arizona and nevada on that note? With those two states if we stop counting now Biden wins, but arguably Trump could win both when all the votes are counted. Seems like you'd want those counted too.

On the bad things happen in Philadelphia tip, statewide voter participation is up 10%. That goes from Allegheny to Erie. All of trump country, BUT, in Philadelphia county is up only 3%. If bad things do happen here, we kind of did a fluffty job letting the rest of the state have more of the share of votes this year.

That doesn't help with people trying to figure out the numbers, I myself like actual data, where can I get the actual numbers, I did searches last week and got all kinds of numbers, this is not helping our country come together and I think it's time some kind of legislation is passed to help weed out misinformation, but in all honesty, how do you actually do that?

I'm so over 2020, and the worst part is that rona is not going away and I personally believe that was the trumpet's downfall.

I believe you are correct. 70 million voters for trump is a huge number that Biden didnt likely have the voters to overcome barring some huge terrible event. I think you are absolutely right.

The best resource for information is actually each states election commission's website. The few I've checked which was mostly the ones left uncounted, all have a resource for previous and current election statistics.

Wisconsins is here: https://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/statistics

Hey koh.
Found out my grandpa voted today in harris county texas.
Funny thing is, is he never received his ballot and never went to a polling station...

But looking online it says he voted in person.

There's always going to be fraudulent activity, that's nothing new, election rules need to be tightened up to avoid it, problem is we have the establishment from both parties not interested in doing anything about it, don't forget, a divided country is the easiest to manipulate.

Thanks :-)

That's exactly it. Here is PA, our liberal court made it so they could count ballots without a postmark, but Alito ordered them to make them separate and not report the results until after the supreme court could have a hearing. Our conservative legislators made it so they couldnt start counting until Tuesday and had to finish by Saturday which is crazy and just a measured attempt at voter suppression that made us waaaaay late reporting. Then our liberal sec of state, told people to count ballots that were supposed to be separate but just not report it and fluff got mixed up.

If the conservatives were not fighting the liberals, it wouldn't be like this in PA. And seriously none of the fighting made a difference in the state. It's just an annoying fight without any real reasons. Silly.

Wow, amazing that's taking place in the birthplace of our democracy :-/

Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves!

Absolutely. It's embarrassing. Both being part of the state where it's happening and to our allies and adversaries. And the fact is this election showed off the fact that if you give people multiple ways to vote and try to get everyone involved, it doesnt benefit one party or the other. It's actually still just damn close. Trump got the most votes that a sitting president has every received, and less than one percent different than Biden, and the share of the popular vote is damn near the same ratio. They're fluffing with each other and all it does is make us look stupid. Doesn't even have an apparent benefit.

I think it's done purposely in order to keep us on each other's throats while they keep pissing on us by chipping away at our freedoms. Sinister plot that may very well be what's going on :-(

Youre not white!

Is exactly whats going on, you people are setting up for a tyranny that is going to come in and take over in the next 20 years. Once the people have become totally and completely used to having everything they want and these rights and those rights are slowly taken away from the ones with common sense, then the sheeple will be ready for take over...I say 20 years, but that is just an exaggerated estimate, is probably closer to 10. Once those with the basic common sense are drowned out by the masses then you will really see the country go to fluff and because the masses consist solely of those that are givin everything or told from day 1 that they just need to be coddled, then damn near anyone can just roll in and take over. Who's gonna stop them? Whiney kids and yuppies that think they are entitled to everything and anything? Those are the easiest to roll over, they have no backbone and don't know how to stand up for themselves, let alone, know why they should stand up for themselves. The US is already over half way to this point, and Canada is not far behind.

Agreed.



What's your point?

One issue with the new generation of Americans is they think everything should be free. We are literally breeding a lazy generation of americans that rather accept a hand out when things are not going their way instead of busting their ass to better themselves. Countless immigrants have come to this country and done it. Our society has turned into a spoiled hands out society. The dont feed the animal sign comes to mind. We need to ween people off the government and show them that they can thrive in this country if they put in some... scary word here... hard work.

No point just spamming. Biden said fawk your political views hawk. <3

I completely disagree. Millennials are about 5x as likely to work multiple jobs and over 40 hours a week than the last two generations combined, and we have about 200% industrial productivity of Gen-X, albeit in part due to technological advances.

At my place of work, there are 7 millennials. 6 of us work two+ jobs and over 40 hours a week and the other is the General manager, making salary for 60 hours plus. About 39% of workers aged 18-24 work two jobs and about 44% of us aged 25-34 work two jobs. It's well over a third.

The problem is that wages haven't risen with inflation or productivity. Minimum wage is so low that you cant afford a 12 year old babysitter etc.

I think every generation says the one after them is lazy, bit the fact is productivity has continuously gone up so it cant be so. Some of us, unfortunately, cant find a job that pays well enough to pay for day care and can't work 60 hour weeks. That's not really the fault of the person so much as it is the wages they get offered.

The only thing Derrick, is that MOST of those millenials may work 2-3 jobs, but #1) they hate their job, #2) they suck at their job, mainly because they hate their job, #3) they don't want to do the physical aspects of their jobs ( whether it be cleaning or packing) and #4) they are entitled to all sorts of bs from Personal rights, the person 3 desks downs personal rights.

I say that coming from a management position and a business owner. I have found that in the restaurant industry I would hire 45-60 yr old chefs to wash dishes and prep instead of the 18-30 yr old fresh out of school, think they know how to cook, and wouldn't wash a dish to save a life. And now in the landscape and agricultural industry, I find the same thing, schoolies that think the are entitled because they went to school but have literally 0 hours on the table or a 40-55 yr old whos built walls and patios all his life and doesn't argue.

Millennials for the loose, it is one of the hardest things I am currently trying to accept about myself and I am just barely classified as one :'(

There's the problem.

People on started to struggle when the rules around pay rises were changed, in the 70's and 80's.. and this is the problem..

What once allowed a newly minted college student to afford a house and small mortgage wouldn't even allow them to make a minimal rent and pay for food now. let alone start a family.. oh and on the topic of education, how dare a bunch of entitled old fluffs who got their college degree's paid for by the government blame the millennials or others for not being able to get an education to work those jobs (that barely exist) that will cover expenses and allow them to grow as humans.

I think hawk has shown that he really is a grump old man at this point, and there is no point beating a dead horse.. so I'm going to leave it there.

Yeah its like.....so you're going to charge me 400k for my education and $1200 for rent, but pay me $10/hr for a job I need a degree for? Sheesh. My girlfriend is quite literally a research scientist at THE Vanderbilt university and makes 15/hr.

If you want me at 100% productivity for 40 hours a week, stop having me work 2 jobs and 70 hours to do it. Period. Almost half my working age works more than 90% of the generation behind me. Its true!!! GenX people RARELY worked a 50, and I've worked more 60s than my parents and grandparents combined. Am I tired and unproductive sometimes? fluff yes I am.

But 1) I love what I do, 2) I'm really fluffin good at it, 3) I have to clean up fluff and puke and 4) everyone in the customer service industry takes hell for a living. I HAVE MANAGED business for 40k and in 1979 that was the inflation equivalent of minimum wage. I could still barely pay for my apartment. I couldn't have worked that job if I had kids. Period. Let alone the second job I NEEDED the entire time.

The value of the dollar is trash now, yet our generation gets paid the same amount as people in 70s. "You get what you pay for" was true, is true and will continue being true. If you pay people better, you will get better workers. Been true since the beginning of time. Expecting this generation to work as hard for half as much value is silly.

Can you imagine if you were a kid trying to get your first job and they literally offer you 1 sandwich every two hours? You have to work legit two whole hours of physical labor for two slices of bread and some turkey? And a car costs about as much as you make in a year at 40 hrs if you decide not to eat all year? That's absurd. Minimum wage now is like 60 bucks a day after tax and a good cheesesteak is like 15. Its like...dumpster diving is more efficient. People who eat out of trash cans are arguably doing better with their time than low wage workers, because neither are making enough to pay rent.

Pay someone 40 an hour, get a skilled laborer. People who pay me this amount can run smaller staffs of extremely specialized talented employees who work their ass off and lower labor costs. I get paid that, and I am worth that. Stop going for quantity over quality and you'll get better workers.

If you are paying people less than 15 or 20 an hour, you get what you get. You aren't paying them enough to be happy and productive because they need to work 70 hour weeks to survive. So stop expecting them to be happy and productive or pay them enough to quit the 2nd job.

$10-15/hr does sound pretty terrible but these 40hr/week jobs that pay enough to live on often take 50-100 hrs a week anyway lol.

You get a task that no one knows(not you or your employer) how long it will take and get assigned 20 hours to solve it, if there are complications it may take 100 hours but most employees feel compelled to complete it anyhow, and will do so in what would have been their own time.

I survived for 3 years on 15$ an hr until I decided I wanted to better myself. I have a house (trailer if you go off of buddas joke, its not) now, two cars, a boat, and have put my wife through school for her bachelor's while paying for classes out of pocket.
Want to know how?
It's called budgeting. Learn how to budget and know the difference between wants and needs.
Sadly most dont know how to do this. Not everyone needs to go to school but should go get a skilled job. Hvac guy who came out to my house a couple months ago pulls in close to 100k and is in his early 20s. No school.
I dont mind being a grump towards the lazy masses begging for free handouts.

Hawk, before you lose all of us.. When was this that you survived 3 years of 15 per hour?

and what do you do for work now that has allowed you to buy all those things?

And lastly.. Is it possible for any one during these days to do that still? I'm not saying you didn't work hard, and you probably worked your ass off to get to where you are today.. but really if a few things didn't go your way would you have ended up in the same place?

I bought my house in 2013 while working an 11.50$ job bumped to 15 the year after. Make pretty decent money for the work I do now but trying to better myself and bump up into the next tax bracket.

I have been at the point where I couldn't even afford groceries before sucks at check out getting declined.

Raising the minimum wage always raises the cost of living, all you're doing is devaluation of your currency, businesses need to make up for the difference, cost of goods go up, prove me wrong.

Go!

.

This is how Soviet and I moved up in life. When I met him he worked making probably 11 an hour job. I was making pretty good money bartending/serving, but I came into his life with A TON OF DEBT. We lived off a budget, paid off all my debt. Lived in a trailer at the time that we rented pretty cheap from his uncle. Soviet got a better paying job. After all the debt was paid, we saved up in cash and bought our home. Our vehicles, home, tractor, and the 5 ton have all been paid in cash.
We also have a boat, but we pretty much stole that from Soviet's mom (lol)

There are big differences between trying and not trying and having the continual mindset "I can't do it." Yes, you can if you try hard enough and push yourself. Unless you have some horrible disabilities..

Otherwise, push yourself. Soviet left his job about 2 months ago and has his own business with a buddy remodeling and so far they are making good money out of it. He is happier now because he is doing something he really likes and is making money off it.

Yeah. I actually was reading this thing about living costs and such. I grew up in a house on 20 acres in an area that was technically 90% in poverty. But also like everyone had 20 acres and a boat. Living costs vary a lot place to place.

It costs less to live in the country, and while you could just get a skilled labor job like HVAC, people who work in technology or economics or research or science almost exclusively have to live in cities or have hours long commutes.

The value of minimum wage in 1968 at $1.60 based on the purchasing power on average of today's money is about $12/hr. The cost of a new car, for example, could be paid with less than a year of savings at $1.60 for the average car cost of $2800. About 10 months of work you have a new car. About 12 you can afford a home. And that doesnt account for productivity increases. If the minimum wage in 1968 had kept up with labor's productivity growth, it would have reached $19.33 in 2017.

Today federal minimum wage of $7.25 will give you $15,080 before tax if you work 52 consecutive 40 hour weeks. A new car costs about 36,000 and new homes were on avg about 330k, or more than 20 years of work at that wage. Even median rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1078 a month or $12,936 per year. So the minimum wage 1 job worker has 2000 for all their food and utilities and everything for the year? And you want that level of disenfranchisement to work harder for you? Nah just pay better.

Why pay better when they can just move their manufacturing to 3rd world countries? That is exactly what happens when you choke businesses, or simply close their doors, since Oregon raised their minimum wage many small business shut down.

That shouldn't fall on to the worker and affect them negatively. Free trade has its pros and cons and weve definitely seen tons of jobs leave over just NAFTA for example.

It shouldn't be the workers fault or problem tho. Domestic policy should just be such that workers get paid an actual living wage. And if people want to outsource labor from sweat shops or move their business to tax havens, they should be penalized to the point that moving will hurt domestic business. Whether with tariffs or whatever. It isnt the fault of the worker that businesses will make the move to sweat shops, so they shouldn't even get paid enough to pay rent or eat in order to keep the business here. Domestic policy has to change to make it worth businesses staying. Not just affording them the opportunity to pay people literally less than ever in american history relative to productivity and inflation. And it's not like the 1% of the population we are a part of is going to stop consuming 24% of the worlds goods and rising anytime soon.

Give tax breaks to companies who stay domestic, but have a larger pool of income taxes to give domestic companies tax breaks with. In addition to collecting higher taxes from those who choose to operate internationally. It's not that difficult. If we can run a 28 trillion dollar deficit I am certain we can find some tax incentives for small businesses.

Why stick in an entry level job when you have the means to get out and better yourself? If you are out of high school working for 7.25$ you might want to re evaluate your life choices.

Oh but it is going to fall on the employee, when the business shuts down because they cannot absorb the costs of minimum wage there's nothing the employee can do, nothing you can do, nothing the government can do, so yes ultimately the employee loses his/her job.

I can think of a lot of reasons but they are all based on previous bad decisions lol. Let's say you have a kid at age 18 and can only work shift work to raise your kid. You're probably stuck at entry level or in a restaurant until they're old enough to be alone for hours at a time.

Sure, that's a poor life choice that go you there. Maybe you should have been more responsible. Maybe you should have aborted the kid because you cannot afford to live in this country with it. Idk.

I dont think means to survive should be tied to life choices and frankly I'd rather see that person keep the kid and have enough cash to raise it. The minimum should just be a living wage. It was possible in the 60s with half as productive of a worker, 52.8% corporate tax and 0 living billionaires, it should be possible now with the top end reaching near a trillion in net worth, 9% corporate tax and our working class producing hundreds of billions of dollars in goods.

It is tied, you're a product of your environment, in every society, I come from a 3rd world country and trust me, I'm blessed to be a US citizen and wouldn't trade it for anything, I had my first job at 13 years old because both my parents combined income was not enough to get a family of 6 through the week, let alone a month.

I just dont feel like making the mistake to have a teen pregnancy should literally destroy your chances of eating tho. What separates us from a third world country is literally billions and billions of dollars but income disparity has never been worse.

There's clearly a way to restructure taxes to benefit small or struggling businesses and paying for it with a wealth tax or incentives for staying domestic. I dont even think the burden should fall on the business, let alone the workers, and frankly doesnt have to if small business taxes are adjusted to assume higher wage workers. It will generate more income tax for the government anyways so it's easy to see how to offset incentives.

Class envy is a poison, better yourself and reach for the skies, you're an American for Christ sakes, if us immigrants can do it, so can you, that's the biggest difference between immigrants and born americans, we don't suffer from class envy, we work our asses off save money and start our own business, instead of feeling sorry for ourselves wishing we were Bill Gates.

The argument I make when the race of drs are mainly indian, middle Eastern, or Asian. Usually the first born Americans in the family. They strive because their parents struggled.

It isn't class envy to think literacy and productivity would be better if 25% of households weren't making less than 25k. That's household income, not individual. 25k. Woof. 24.9% of the nation. Another 3rd of households are in the 50k-100k bracket which is still crazy to me for a whole household. I was raised in between the two.

It affects our crime rate, our living situations, our divisions, our education, our upbringing and our whole outlook on the american dream growing up in poverty, and it's a shame so many people have to grow up in poverty, and a shame Norway is more prosperous despite a far lower GDP.

I get paid 40 an hour and when I'm not worried about my next meal, I do the work of three $13/hr people. And that's why I get paid that. You get what you pay for.

100% THIS!

I partially agree, however, I don't believe wealth redistribution works, never has, never will, you can't take from people who bust their ass to give to those who sit on their ass and expect them to succeed, doesn't work that way, choking small business of their already compromised income doesn't help anyone except the volume driven corporations like Wal Mart, Mc Donald's, Star bucks, etc, they're the ones who benefit because they get to buy up those mom and pop shops and expand their empires.

In this time, tax structure is so wonky and upside down that I agree with you in many other cases but not this one. Putting a 1% wealth tax on just billionaires will net you enough money to raise the minimum wage $5, and pay every business in america the 5 bucks you make them raise it. You can solve the income equality gap without even taking an amount of Bezos's money that he could possibly ever spend.