I could eat =)

I agree Dibs, BC and EE combo is as close as we may get for awhile,and it aint bad.

I'm all for a good old fashioned public flogging, especially of some folks that may or may not have been mentioned in this thread, but IMHO the original post here is a bit unprofessional.

Not a world breaker by any means - devs bringing up rules and explaining that deletions are by accounts is all well and good, but I'm not sure it's the devs place to name names here. Dagstar would have came along and pointed it out soon enough. I felt the same of Mickster in EC when he would make a post to the effect of "xALLIANCEx, cheating is bad, mmmk?" This isn't the same kind of situation, but I still think it would be better if the mods stuck with reminding everyone of the rules, not publicly pointing out who has broken them. Unless of course this is SOP from now on, in which case I love it :P

LOL thats bullfluff.

If you're cheating in this game, why should you be protected?

Dibs, thats just an assumption on your part, dont assume publicly please :)

Damn that Primeval!!! Ohh wait his 1A country is not on that list of deletions... hmmmmmm

I wouldnt be surprised if we find out this was a third party that hacked/logged into the accounts.

I think this is honestly a play at discrediting NA yet again.

Hence why I believe deletions across all servers is retarded. Yet, again, I understand why it's being done, but still think its retarded.

These are just country deletions, not account bans or anything; they can make a new country or make new countries next set; I *strongly* recommend everybody who thinks their login info may have been compromised change their password (I just added that section last night! :)

Also wrt methods of getting passwords:


Sure, but that's not really easy to do, in fact I would say it's bloody difficult; they could get your banking info to boot....


All our passwords are hashed, I couldn't get anybody's pass from the DB even if I wanted to.


Possible, but I think most of the 3rd party ones here hash passwords now... ever since GT anyway heh


We don't have any non-hashed password storage;


Cookies are linked with IP's so unless you can get their cookie *AND* their IP, then that'd be difficult....

You people are [i]dissapointed[/i]? I WOULD LOVE to delete some nations! POWAR TRIP! POWAR TRIP! POOOOWWAAAAAAARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

i don't agree with dibs. mixing clans sites with that goes on in EE would not be a bad thing. clan's forum rules would have to be tightened to match those of EE's ingame rules in order to keep a good image for the game, and then game mods/admins(such as those that run/participate in other alliances) would have to be the ones that were ultimately held responsible for bad content on the forum posts, so you'd have to see a lot more EE Admins intervene in internal clan affairs.

hope that made sense.

i think that the current mods have a lot more control over how secure third party sites are these days, because if they feel that a third party site isn't up to par with security, they can simply pull their access to the API's(wasn't possible before) and the sites would become null and void.. this method is probably the best method to use. if DM's site for LaE turns out to not be very secure(and I can see this happening, simply with it being so new) then the admins for EE can easilly enforce DM to improve the security or risk losing the stats access he has.

not picking on LaE, just using as an example. would even apply if my site, http://www.letskillstuff.org was found to be insecure or involved in cheating of some form(which i seriously doubt it would ever be).




was just going to post about this as well, but Qzjul beat me to it.

will mention that third party sites couldn't really do much in regards to keyloggers except to block the use of JS/etc on their site.

also, at least on the part of LKS, we go to great lengths to ensure the security of our database and login details. even gaining access to the hashed data on our cookies would lead you nowhere, as we use various other methods as well as the cookie to match the user to the information stored in our database.




basically, the idea that all 3rd party sites fail in comparison to the game's security is just ludicrous. it hasn't even been proven that LaE's site is to blame.. it's probably just propaganda for NA/LaE to save face and cause confusion over the fact that they've been caught with their pants down.

"I *strongly* recommend everybody who thinks their login info may have been compromised change their password (I just added that section last night! :)"

Aboot time there was a preferences option to do that. (Yes, I am aware you could do it by claiming you forgot your password and resetting it, but I wasn't smart enough or dishonest enough to think of it).

Ironically, the 10+ hours of admin time wasted to smoke out these alleged cheaters did something positive with that change!

If I may add a suggestion that doesn't belong on this thread; add the ability to search the news by clan tag. Not everyone has, or wants, access to 3rd party sites for those tools.

Like someone posted earlier im suprised that NA hasnt booted them from their tag for cheating or sent IP's around to other alliances as is and has been normal procedure for awhile

Im also dissappointed to see posts from Axa and Mrford that posts in a negative way about the deletions, frankly i think they were nice not to permban them for 2 months

As for posting the countries publically, I dont see what the problem with that is and it has been done for years as well. not by moderators sure but when IX had 40 deletions in 03 it sure was posted on AT like many other cases

Ivan
Head of fluff
Survival of the Fittest

thankyou ivan someone else talking common sense.

Ivan, I agree with the deletions, and I'm not worried cause I know if any of those countries can prove their independence from the other, the mods will probably reinstate them. However, I'm just not a fan of the whole different servers policy.

The only reason I'm not a fan of the whole different servers deletions thing is because I couldn't give a rats ass about FFA, and if my EE password wasn't my uber universal password, I'd probably let someone login to my FFA account ;p Since it is my uber password that I use for at least 3 other important things, I wouldnt though ;p

It's entirely plausible from what I've read that these guys cheated in FFA, but not in Alliance. Again, I understand that with the login info, they COULD have cheated in alliance to if they wanted to. I just know there are other players that play FFA like me that dont give two fluffs about it. Butttttt I'm not an admin so I just throw out my two cents, even though I know this isn't something that will change.

"But I agree with Son Goku... cheaters are what started the game's downfall many years ago. We're certainly going to do anything we can to prevent them "

Not all cheaters were the downfall of this game heh. I was a good cheater the majority of my cheating days. It was rare that the countries ever helped each other directly or indirectly and just as rare for me to kill fluff with multis. I did however, help keep some small alliances afloat by leading them when no one else did, which probably kept player numbers up for the game. Cheat, I did, though it wasn't the cheating that caused the downfall per se.

time to let NA, LAE and other tags to sort out this mess amongst themselves and the game administrators

good luck folks - you need it :(

Rare dosnt mean never. And the game was meant for you to have 1 country so in my opinion anything over the 1 country was a part of ruining the game

Thats correct, there was a set I ran multis to kill FBI (also the set I was a JR in RD).

But the other 3 years of cheating I dont think I personally contributed to the downfall of the game.

And before anyone tries to put a bad word in about my currently, I have a tendency of reporting my own players if I think their cheating. Thats something Pang/Slaggy can probably vouch for.

Players can also have their username changed upon their request by sending an email to .

Correction,
the kick was for the suicide

Even if you got restored, you would not be allowed back in.
Assuming, you were deleted by mods.....and got restored.. and not just self deleted.

All this talk about hash, but nobody sounds high. :( Disappoint.

we're not going to talk about our security publicly...

but I will state that everything we have on EE is secure.

We're not using SSL (mainly due to budget issues.... ie we had no budget when we coded this :p) but we're able to provide a considerable level of security and the only improvement would be going to an SSL type setup.

Any "hacking" that went on was not done on the EE site.

the hacking was not through EE or boxcar

it was done through LaE's site

but the mods already know this, dont you?

no, they do not

but if information was obtained through malicious actions, and used ingame to harm an alliance, would it not be the mods responsibility to undo the damage, and punish the offender?

if the passwords were compromised, even outside of the mods control, by malicious means, and if this has been demonstrated to the mods (i don't know if it has) and no harmful actions (or even log-ins) were caused in a particular server, why then are they "stuck having to" delete the countries in those servers???

why not just suspend the accounts until the user resets the password? delete countries that were logged into yes. but the others, it just doesn't make sense. if the user wasn't cheating, and no harm was caused, i don't see the logic in it.

So by that logic dibs, if anyone manages to hack into your country, by any means, and you get deleted, then you are more than willing to take the deletion even though it was through no fault of your own?

UC is wise beyond his years!

So someone logs into your country, messes around, but doesn't do anything harmful, and you are gonna delete your own country? Heck, you might not even know the person has compromised your account if they were just logging into it to try to get you deleted for cheating.

Booyahh!

Dibs grow a pair and face the music for your actions now... And next set look me up... Id be glad to lay the smackdown on your punk Arrse...

Why bother listening to Bannibal? He can't take a few grabs without suiciding and then deleting his country. He's a man's man!

mmm we're not using md5, that's only 32 bit i think? and there's lookup tables for alot of md5's... we're using much stronger security than that;

and no you can't just pass your hashed password in...

we don't use SSL, but, as pang said, budget (&time actually) was the reason for that.... not that a web game should need SSL tbh... do you have SSL into facebook? we're not a bank =/


as Pang said, SSL is about all the security we could add at this point....

(and even SSL can be spoofed)

if you put your password into a site or give it to anyone else, you are technically account sharing, as another party now has access to your account. You should NEVER give your username and/or password to anyone or submit it to a hosting site for any reason. Or even to the admins... we don't need nor want to know people passwords.

Just some food for thought.

If I were people trying to defend LAE/NA, I wouldn't try to make it seem like the mods are doing anything wrong here and trying to play it up as a technicality... if anything, I feel we are being FAR too lenient on them.

WOW Pang @@!

No bias was intendeded in that last statement by Pang / sarcasm

Food for thought - catching the morons who were stupid enough to get caught is rarely the sum of the problem but the tip of the iceberg.

I confess I am a big supporter of cross-server deletions. I even made this suggestion directly to Dragon (from SOL) to pass to game coders even before EE went public, just the same as with the single login for all games.

Punish cheaters, and punish them hard.

Would someone please think of the cheaters' feelings!?

I agree wholeheartedly with Eric171.

'Punish cheaters, and punish them hard.'

no one seriously doubts that LaE cheats.

look at the threads they openly brag that there are only fifteen LaE members but they have over 800 countries

they are so open about it it can only mean they are so well conneced they do not fear reprisal