If he has strong defensive allies then his defence can effectively be doubled. As for failing a hit that should break, I made roughly 40 landgrabs this set in FFA on pretty much every non-allied clan, and I never failed once after calculating my break then adding 10%.

As for DR. That works with GS as well, a certain % of all hits will give almost no losses like that hit. Starting at close to 0% for someone with no diminishing returns, and ending at probably about 90% reduced losses for someone with max. Even had you broke you would only have gotten about 10% of the land with no returns (just guessing).

I know llaar, I know how to get super high land too, I know the game well, I just refuse to do it.
But eventually even normal players can figure out how to do it. I am not complaining about this set, as if you weren't allied to NBK I woulda been grabbing a lot of my land myself.

I just want a active ffa, where lots of people attack other people. People get retals people can do grabs, a lot of extra acres are made for the community in general. Self farming doesn't do that, and hurts everyone but you in the long run. And a ton less fun :P

nbk.boxcarhosting.com


That is if you like killing more then netting, and hate self farming.

Well you are incorrect llaar. A very large fraction of the server does self farm. And you have to count the farms of countries that self farm in the process too. Once you count every country that is involved in the entire process, probably like 1/4 or 1/5 of everyone does it to some extent.

And don't fool around llaar, you know that anyone if they wanted to could get 100k acres well before the first month of the set is up if they planned it well.

The way it affects the server is that no one grabs other people anymore really. 90% of landgrabs of everyone are on themselves. SS and PS is almost no point to it anymore, you can make your own acres that you don't have to risk losing in a retal. That is what I have a problem with. If everyone lg'ed pretty much everyone then ghost acres would be made on their own and the best man stands on top. Now people who attack just themselves win, and as a consequence very few people attack anyone other then themselves, which compounds the self farming issue.

I would have had a lot larger problem had it been 1v1. If it was aodt vs nbk, I woulda gotten pissed at anyone stepping in. As it was, half the server was in the fight anyway. Once a gangbang starts, everyone gets their foot in.

I have no problems with 1v1 wars, even had it been our ally getting hit I wouldn't have stepped in. Perhaps the instant it was done we would do something then, but we would have waited.

I think route is onto something, although maybe not that harsh.
I think everyone would agree that the bulk of the extra income is from food with a ton of land. If empty acres made no food, this would cripple the ability for self farmed countries to get to these levels.

Population still needs to come at same rate, so it would be a bad idea to change that. Even with a ton of acres the amount of tax you get from pop doesn't matter compared to the income from food.

I think it is 2 food a empty acre, when you have a hundred thousand empty acres you are already making more then a max tech 20k land country full built up, before tech even comes into play for the big land country.

Yep you are right jedioda, Demo's advantages dont matter will later on when tech is maxed.

I think as if jedi was saying that demo had a 20% tech bonus multiplier to go with their 10% max tech.

I think that would help a ton, as demo's do have a good chance of taking advantage of their tech sooner.

Demo's get pretty much no advantage at start just penalties relative to other goverments. They can almost pull even with max tech, but they are at a disadvantage until then. Keep in mind you can't really do big reselling if the tech you need for income is low. So you are just buying tech anyway.

Demo has the potential to be great, I am just saying they just need a little bit more so they will be a more common goverment, as we really need Demo's to balance the market with buy sell market reselling.

I know donny, but us attacking now even though it doesn't really matter is more of a statement.
Gangbangs suck, even though our FDP's are on 'your' side we are still stepping in pretty much against them.

No it doesn't. First of all unless the farmer had max res and bus tech it wouldnt even be noticed. But a facist farmer gets about 80% of normal income from cash.

My 18k acre country makes 700k cash a turn, a facist would make say 500k cash.

200k Cash is equivalent to 5000 food. Assuming food price to be roughly 40.

Now if 17k acres of those 18 were farms, that is 85,000 base food. Facism's 264.5% food income is 21% more then Demo. 20% if you include market tax.

20% of 85,000 is 17,000. Which is 680,000. So the bonuses that a facism gets from food is enough to match demo's pop and pci, and still have 480k cash left over.

That being said, a demo with maxed tech in res, bus and agri will be more profitable then a facist. But that is only with maxed tech really.

Sorry Maki about breaking the CF.
I just hate gangbangs more then I want to keep a CF.
Figured there wasn't much time left in the set anyway, so it doesn't really matter in the end.

I know that is what I figured as well qz. But the target was not hit for about 6 days.

If it isnt profitable why are all the competitive countries doing it, and doing extremely well in networth?

Yep, now I had 130% strategy, on a PS. I end up with about 5%.

Alright, why are the returns I am getting so low for grabbing?

When I am the attacker, attacking someone, say the defender has 20mil NW, and I attack with 12mil NW. Should that cut the gains in half?

And this happens right after multiple spy ops were done on the country by themselves.

I know it is really expensive qz to rebuild, but you have almost no other expenses. When you get that high the tax from your population almost pays for your military expenses. Then you get a boatload of food thats sole purpose is building buildings. You have to have a crazy high bpt in order to pull it off.

With self farming, 2-3 weeks into set I could no problem get 30k acres in all my countries, when exploring will not get your more then 12k. This is insanely more profitable.

And these days it is pretty easy to get retalled, I think I had the longest non retalled streak before my clan went to work with aodt. And it wasn't easy pulling it off, I had all top 10 countries dictatorship, with weapons tech, allied to themselves, and even then it was still possible to break it.

I am wish you Dragon!! I remember talking to you waaay back in the days.
I never self farmed and had 3 of the top 5 fattest countries until AoDT decided to nuke me to oblivion, lol.

Self farming is a joke in general. But it works cause of artificial diminishing returns. If I could get normal land % gain from one of those fatties before they are too high NW for their Spy DR to DR them, then self farming would not be an issue for anyone not allied to NBK ;)

No one ever disagreed that it was profitable. Imo either no more diminishing returns on yourself so if you did self farm people could grab you for full amount or no self farming on same account.

And thunder only reason I didn't attack any LAE was cause you are allies. Self farming with no diminishing returns from spy ops I will not disagree with.
Even though diminishing returns do not exist allegedly, when I attack a country with 71k acres, and get 4k land with 130% strategy, that sorta defeats the purpose of not self farming.

All I ask for is diminishing returns to be removed from everything but GS AB PS SS BR so it is player trackable.

I am not talking about intermittent by 1 country. I am talking about 200 ish opps in a row every 2 days.

Qzjul, the 20k acre country I mentioned about 10% higher in NW then the country I hit it with.

And Slag, I am fully aware that attacking smaller targets will get you less land. Attacking larger targets should get you more land. I think it works out to about 130% land if your country is less then 70% the NW of the target country.

Next reset I will do tests, I will take screenshots of everyone, and I will show you the results. I can show you the varying results of landgrabs right now on high land targets.
I can't do tests this set as it isn't practical for me to do so at the moment.

I am rooting for HABS myself JAT, but their goalie completely saved them. No one had any idea he was that good. And he pulled them through the first 2 series almost on his own.

If he can keep it up, HABS have a great shot at cup.

More players is a long term goal.
Short term smaller clans. If there are only enough players to make 3 really big clans, 4-5 smaller ones, then really small ones. Who do we have to kill!

The thing that would help the most is clans are capped at 150 countries. I know NBK is higher and would have to be broke up. But hey, I think it would work.

Yep I for the first time perhaps agree with RaTS, lol. This is getting ridiculous. If you don't self farm, you have no chance at netting. And with Spy DR (Which does not exist according to admins) You will not lose any real amount of land if someone grabs you (Trust me, I tried, a lot).

I say that the easiest way to fix this, is put in the game, you CANNOT attack your own countries. Sure people will switch back and forth to get land. But that is a lot harder, as you have to be online at same time, you have to do PS to reduce defenses, you have to trust the person you are hitting to keep his countries full with buildings.

If you cannot attack your own string of countries this will cripple self farming. It will still be done, but at maybe 1/4 the rate.

And this makes sense, as lots of people are quick to point out, this is a war game. In a game like this how is it that the best strategy is to attack yourself?

I am not misinformed.
I attack a 34,000 acre country, 29mil NW.
My country is 17mil NW, has 130% military strategy.

Target has not been attacked with any PS or SS within the last week.

I do a PS. On a normal 20,000 acre country I can expect 2600 acres. On this country I get 2400 acres.

Granted that isnt complete proof that spy DR works.
But this country had a 20:1 spy to land ratio taking into account tech.
My country had a 100:! spy to land ratio.

I failed 6 spy ops in a row on him before my first one succeeded.

This very strongly implies that he was spied on a TON of times before the spy DR came into affect.
This clan in question had no enemies that would try to kill them, so it was self inflicted most likely.

So combine the fact with extremely low return ratios, with the fact that he was spied on does imply that spy DR does carry over.

I know this isn't positive proof, but I have multiple instances of this recorded, and quite visible on my attacks in boxcarhosting.

Please don't just say I am wrong and not listen. There is some non-visible form of damage reduction that isn't visible to players, going on, and from my experience it strongly implies it is spies.

You can also see this on some of the large FFA countries. No visible attacks in any large quantity in view. And some people are getting returns of 1k acres on a 60k acre target, others are 10k acres.
This is far beyond normal land variance from landgrabs.

if someone would like to contact me to point out where I am wrong I am more then willing to listen. And I would like to talk with an admin as well.

My contact is

I never once said demo sucks. Nor do I think that. In fact you are says that everyone sucks cause they don't run demo's.
Instead of actually trying to debate the advantages of demo all you are doing is making a statement then getting mad when I disagree, and I am giving valid reasons for not agreeing.

Not hard, just keep raiding oil reserves, or food stores, or kill civilians. If you have even 10k food, everytime they kill some food your NW changes slightly. Every successful spy break puts you more and more into DR.

llaar speaks truth, but it was a 24 hour suspension offense, and for the most part was solely software enforced.

I agree as well. If you are limited to 15, why ruin a lot of your countries and make them solely farms. What seems to be the case is that the worst of the self farmers, cheated to make their own multie countries.

Not to mention that if you read my initial post i said, and I quote

"Democracy is one of the least used governments. It's bonuses are decent enough, but the 0% commision is its unique ability pretty much. "

Demo is ok, but thats about all.

For teching, theo's BTP bonus lets it be able to build less CS, build faster, and start teching sooner, not to mention theo can resell as well for some side cash.

Rep makes more cash, can explore better too. As well as 20% more cash then a Demo with both don't have tech.

Facism makes more food, and can stock up on food then switch to demo no problem and get the best of everything.

Demo isn't a bad government it just has no real niche to fill, it is just ok at most things, and what I am saying is give more people a reason to play Demo's, and the bonuses I suggested wouldn't make Demo a super great goverment, it would just give it a roll to fill.

Yes everyone sucks, that is the reason.

And no, Demo farmer is not better then Facist farmer.
Demo farmer makes 243% of normal food with max technology. Facism farmer makes 264.5% with max technology of normal food. Taking into account the 6% tax, facist farmer makes 248% of normal food.

That is if Tech is maxed, if not then Facism makes proportionally more, 15% more with no technology, facism can buy more tech sooner, and reach max tech in less time.

Yes it does, and it is fairly widely known too. I have received below the bare minimum amount of land that any landgrab should get just because of spy DR.
This does happen, and that is how almost all high land countries in FFA avoid getting hit for big numbers the bulk of the set.

The new fix just put it back up to where it was before.
And if it doesnt "suck and is underpowered" then why do people only use it for dumping saved up food?

It isnt bad, it is just that anything Demo can do, other Gov's can do better.

I know it is used by a ton of people, but I will consider this a bug. Spy attacks should not affect normal attacks except for the readiness reduction they do with demoralise. Anyone can just landgrab a bunch of other people, spy DR themselves for a few days until the retals expire, and see almost none of the land grabbed get taken back.
This is not fair in general and there is no visual way to track this.

If you want to DR your country, GS, AB and BR are all available. Free DR aka Spy DR on the other hand just hurts the game in general.

And I bet you that most of these Demo's just converted to demo for the destocking. Demo is by FAR the least used type of government, and is in need of a fix.

And yes demos would get a early advantage with selling tech, but that would only last for a few days or so, and all it would do is cause prices to drop slightly and Demo's would make a early profit. Having more techers at start, and more Demo's in general is a good thing, so I dont see why that isnt a good idea.

Gov
Monarchy (1391)
Democracy (104)
Republic (855)
Theocracy (371)
Communism (724)
Dictatorship (425)
Tyranny (918)
Fascism (543)

I think we should do the float or sink test for accused LAE members. We take the member, throw them into a lake. If they are a LAE member, they should be able to swim (then we can kill them). If they drown, it probably wasn't an LAE member.

Right now in all the top 10's for everygame type, there are a total of 3 demos. Although from what I understand, most people are fascism governments, and just farm keeping all the food on market, then once it comes close to end of set and they need to unload food. They put everything on market, do a PS with all military, then switch to demo, sell their food and buy their military.
Even if you finish in the top 10 using that start, that doesnt count as running a demo.
Running a demo is inferior to other production governments, and is useless for a war government. For the most part it is used for stockers to unload their stocks.
Demo is least used on FFA anyway, thats what I have been playing. And there you dont even see Demo's till near the end of set.

I totally called this days ago, lol.

Democracy is one of the least used governments. It's bonuses are decent enough, but the 0% commision is its unique ability pretty much.
Demo is the best goverment capable of reselling stuff. And I think more demo's in the game will stabalise market prices, as stuff that is too cheap will get bought up and resold at the going price, and the market price of whatever item should balance out.

But this is hindered in several ways.

First of all if a demo sees a bunch of warfare technology on sale for 500$ cheaper then what he thinks he can sell it for, he buys it, then can only put 1/4 of it back on the market. By the time he can sell 4-5 loads of it, the price might have fallen making him waste money.
Same with military, if a demo will buy and resell that, they can only sell 25% of it at a time.

So in order to fix Democracy and make it a competitive government, two things can be done.
First is increase the amount of whatever a Demo can put on market. Say it can put 50% of something on market at once instead of 25%. Another thing that can be done, is lower the time goods take to reach the market. Instead of the 4-6 hours, make it 1-2 hours. This would also make Democracy an anti-buyout country.

Hope you fellows take this into consideration. As I really do like the idea of a Demo country, but its drawbacks are too large to make it work well.

I know, everyone took everyshot they could. Well deserved too.

Still looking for a contact though juggs.

Yo Juggs, give me a shout when you can.

Im up for 16 too.

I don't hate you Donny!!

I know what you are saying dude, but using same username and pass is something a newb would do. For the most part, newb member countries were not deleted. They mostly belonged to the few people we can almost guarantee would not make that mistake, who have been playing this for years.
And DM wouldn't message himself his own pass and username either.
I still think that something along the lines of what I explained is what actually happened.

If Prime did hack into boxcar, and viewed everyones accounts. Either the username/password was posted somewhere on the site, which is not allowed.
Or most of the leadership of LAE used the same logins and usernames for their Boxcar account, as they did for EE. Not to mention that the consensus seems to be you can't view someone's boxcar password at any stage.
The part that I question about the hacking story, is that most of countries that were "hacked" belonged to the LAE leadership.
So in other words, out of everyone in LAE, most of the new players were more security conscious then the vets who have been playing this game for years?

What I suspect is that on the LAE leaderboards somewhere, was a list of logins for farm accounts, as well as main logins for the real 15 that people had in case someone needed to stonewall it. They assumed that using good quality Proxies would be safe from IP detection. Then someone did 'hack' into boxcar, saw the list, then logged into all of those countries to get them deleted. As I very much doubt 1 person from LAE would log into all of them in a row for no reason.

I suspect that their members are all legit. But they also got all the newbs who are like "I want to join the biggest clan so i can be l33t. They gotta learn somewhere ;)

I almost cried when I read Donny's post. Oh man it was tough, good thing I had my good friend, vodka, to keep me sane.

Btw Confirmed

You need to go over that line again icey.

My startups are 4.5mil NW now!!

Should save up money, spend it all, kill something. Then sell all military in private market and save up cash again, lol.