http://li.epicgamer.org/market/express/

I do! I have to say, these are the most beautiful market visualizations. Thanks LittleItaly!

I'm going CI.

...and gonna do my usual of grab like crazy on weekdays, and just cash out the weekend. lol

I'm up for a challenge - I think the cleanest challenge has to the the all-x challenge or some version of who can run fasc casher and commie techer to top 5. lol

Congrats Tmac! Great finish there. (:

Yes that, and also if you screw up or get suicided 1.5 months in, it feels like a lot of effort went down the drain.

...and back to round 596, Tmac's got this I reckon.

So as someone who returned to Earth fairly recently (compared to some of the other regular top10ers here), this is what it looked like:
1st set all x theo techer to feel out the server and market. Finished #8
2nd set all x demo farmer to feel out farmer. Didn't login at the end. Finish #14
3rd set all x rep casher to feel out casher. Finished #4. (and realized the only strat that can net in Express before the latest set of changes was techer)
and then 4th set onwards was tryharding and finished #1/#2ish for the next like 10 or 20 sets. lol

I've never camped, and in fact, some of these wins were so low effort I barely logged in once a day.
It's generally just about good fundamentals.

Hell, last set, I did a blistering pace on Theo Casher that looked like this:
Fully built
17k turn 680
19k turn 750
20k turn 800
23k turn 900
27k turn 1000
30k turn 1100

Did not camp. Just nw matched bots as far as I can (until i started logging out first place) and hit the lowest DR target, whatever the number is (13 or 15 DR whatever).

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I find Express to be the most casual and accessible for me vs Primary which I find the most unforgiving and requires a lot more effort... which is why I only play Express and Tourney (braindead all x) at present.

Celphi, I'd invite you to play a round of express this set and see what it takes to 'exploit' these new bots as you say.

It's not that straight forward anymore. In fact, I don't see any outright exploits like before.
(This, coming from someone who have done most of the exploits you have mentioned in this thread.)

Also, if you played before the latest farmer bot and bushel price update, the 4-5 rounds prior saw either NO food on market or food sitting at ~$100 for the first day or so. That's like unplayable for half the set - not a great experience for players (and consequently, a lot of players dropped out/lost turns/stopped playing mid-set).

I agree with Molotov that bots are just pieces on a chessboard, and it allows better competition to return to human players. Last reset, for a moment, I did think about grabbing Gerdler to slow him down since he was the only one who could compete for first. It's been a while since we have a viable market where a large human casher thought about grabbing a large human commie in the fight for #1. lol

I realized that as I was writing the above post, Gerdler posted the same points but shorter and quicker. LOL You stealing this from me too? JOKES. xD

There are a couple of design questions around bots here and understanding what the goals are is key.

Is the goal of bots to actually WIN this game, or to make the game more competitive for players?

I'd say it's the latter. Bots are there to provide meat to the market, both in terms of goods and land. They make up for the decline in player base over the years. And as with any player base, there is variance in player skill across the population, and Slag has actually incorporated that as a principle in his bot design too (where some bots are smarter than others).

If every bot just plays like a top netter, this game will be too hard for the vast majority of players.

And to answer your question directly Celphi, if all bots just stored turns like a top netter, then Express really starts on Friday, then demand for tech gets concentrated into a 48hour period, and you'll see tech prices at 4-6k on Saturday because of that demand anyways. lol

Whether to store turns or not is also a strategy question with tradeoffs (tech is more expensive but land is easier). I played turns early last set, and don't think I was particularly disadvantaged by tech prices, weighed against the amount of land I got easily and early.

I was thinking more about their effect on the public market.

May I suggest we overshoot and go from 50 --> 200, then reduce it? LOL

I'm leaning on demo farmer.

Epic tech set coming upppppppp

Congrats Gerdler! Stole this win from me!

Haha I really couldn't login much this weekend so I left low SOs on market that ended up destocking me way too early. Lol then at my last login I have to buy 10m worth of food between $92-123. So shame of me for destocking poorly - and still great end game play from Gerdler, and amazing destock from Slag.

On set length, I agree with most here - likely 3 months is the best length, but 1 month to start to get changes in quicker.

On champions, are these crowned per season? I think they should, and if we count total number of champions won, you then have another metric you can never catch... (most champions in a season could be a good one)

The best 'strat' nw is tricky though I love me an allx competition once in a while. =P

Wild idea: I actually do like the idea of rapid continuous changesets accompanied by short-er seasons, esp to govts or something. The strategy would evolve to be come who can best adapt to new rules instead. Say new changeset, people take 2-3 sets to feel it out, and maybe 1-2 sets to self-actualize. This way, any new player or returning player is kinda on more equal footing and everyone figures out the edge (but the game is largely the same so the core strategies apply, just edge optimizations).

Did not see the commie! He's sure delivering on the name. Haha

Ditto on above!

Rob is that a statement of you dropping out this set? Haha

I never quite thought of it.. but 2025 is actually really close, and I doubt any of us thought Earth 2025 would've made it. Haha!

Ditto. We'll treat bots a lot better when they can 5-tap us!

I hear there's a guy who's made 175 grabs on bots so far. Maybe one should blame him for the DR. xD

I don't have a lot of time to play this weekend so I'm going with a super low effort country. Hopefully I remember to login at the end this time!

...And hopefully Rob plays out the set. =P

There is a commie - it's just so small that you missed it. I had to do 2 killruns that reset. lol

Ok. So, given I've basically forgotten to login at the end like a couple times now..

What strat should I be playing to disappoint myself this set?

Congrats on the #1 finish!

And 10/10 on changes so far. (:

Great changes!

Well, if you multi-tap a human player, and he killruns you, that's totally legit behavior. lol

KoH, I've been farming farmer bots please tell me I didn't hit you. lol

Very good changes so far! Way to go Slagpit!

I'm excited for how this server will evolve moving forward.

I prefer to keep Express to a smaller amount of turns similar to Tourney - makes it more unique. (Feel strongly about this)

I prefer starting with 180 turns vs an additional day - the down time is actually nice-ish. (I care less about this.)

I like enshula's point on playing early vs storing turns/playing late as a strategic consideration a player makes.

Seasonal leaderboards is a must!

Ultimately, if I were to articulate what my mental model is for Express:
1) Shorter sets (low total turns)
2) Faster paced (earn turns faster)
3) Frequent (refreshed every week - can take a week off and don't have to wait 2 months for next set; also, if you get suicided, it doesn't feel like you wasted 2 months.)
4) Casual (don't require hardcore logins at specific timings to be competitive - e.g. PS every 2 hours)

Since rejoining mid/late last year, this has been the server I've enjoyed the most, for the reasons stated above.

...And a possible bonus: (worth debating)
5) Experimental (shorter sets means admins should have more agency to try whacky changes weekly, just to shake things up - e.g. grab gains are 3x this set, or explore rates start at 100 this set)

This increases the skill ceiling whilst maintaining the same skill floor - the top players will have to adapt to new rules, but hopefully each experimental change sticks to #4, which is that it shouldn't require you to be logged in constantly to win.

All great changes!

Great change!

Kahuna, the problem right now isn't tech prices being too low.. a techer still wins every set and has won every set for a while now (with the occasional commie indy winning here and there). There is very little strat flexibility in Express if you are looking to win it.

If you suspect cheating, you have to report in-game in order for the mods do check.

The problem though is that people do set up countries in Express every set to just suicide non-GDI targets, which is why it's important to not forget to join GDI! You can also use bonuses (like Tmac said) to get free GDI (you have to join GDI first, then use bonus after to make it free).

Remember to join GDI before making your first grab. I've definitely played a few sets where I forgot GDI and get punished.

You should try again next set, but with GDI this time! You're one of the fastest improving new players so sad to see you go.

Thanks guys! Tech prices were absolutely terrible this set for sure (Slag getting 1k+ agri tech for like half the set lol). I had expected Tmac to win it so was surprised at the finish myself. Made a buncha end game decisions that helped me limp over the line.

Was a good competitive set overall, but with a few folks dropping out it came down to a 3-way.

It's hard to consider a retal a suicide, especially if it's the smaller country topfeeding a big one first.

Good ol' solo server shenanigans!

I agree with all the proposed changes! Great work and this definitely injects new life into Earth again!



This is probably the most controversial point. Gerdler and enshula have already voiced concerns I have. That said, the fact that we have some of the best strategy minds here with different ideas for how to exploit a change, is practically the definition of a good change.

If we have consistent gameplay changes (maybe every season? or hot-fix type change after 1 set if severely broken), then balance wouldn't be a huge issue as people normally take a few sets to figure it out and as soon as it gets figured out it's gonna be a new changeset again.



This is an interesting point indeed. Seems like 2 sides to this coin. We probably all agree that the goal here would be to make it more accessible to be competitive, i.e. login less often.

There were 100 countries in the Express server.

Rank Country Land Networth Special
1 GET FAT AND LOSE (#6) 41,139 $55,940,155 HG
2 F i v e S i x (#78) 12,879 $35,201,268 DG
3 Saul Goodman (#58) 23,034 $34,836,958 CG
4 AMC (#49) Game profile 17,868 $31,433,403 H
5 Tech Guy (#13) Game profile 20,524 $26,242,477 H
6 whatchamacallit (#29) 10,425 $24,691,760 MG
7 Pickles and Onions Mmmmmmmm (#81) 11,249 $22,433,364 DG
8 BidenIs USA That Stupid (#85) 23,556 $19,865,559 HG
9 I R WoG SuperFly (#9) 17,526 $19,704,228 CG
10 you asked for it (#26) Game profile 17,434 $16,388,471 HG


Congrats Slagpit on the win with Theo Casher! This is prob the highest casher finish in Express! (RECORD!)

Agreed on all above points.

And yes, being able to win as an all-x means server is broken.
5 a l l e x p l o r e r (#84) 8166 $43,976,300 DG
My last all-x country would've finished higher than any country this set (including mine lol).

The easiest fix to bot abuse for now is to remove the bot buyout <-- basically stagger their buyout time across a longer period of time (and add in some randomness to timing per bot - conceptually 'spend slowly over the last 24 hours' or if easier to code 'blow stock at a random time in the final 6-12hours') rather than having a single point in time market buyout.
...Or do away with them stocking and buying out the market altogether. Just play turns regularly right up to the very end.

So I don't actually know how the bots play (haven't seen the code/script), so here's just my take going by feel:
* bots don't retal.
* farmer bots seem to be selling food too low.
* indy bots are selling military too cheaply.
* somehow, techer bots aren't producing enough tech. (but are able to sell tech at higher prices relative to food/military)
* all bots seem to keep gaining land, even for techer bots (and maybe that's why they aren't producing enough tech).

And one I'm less sure about:
* do bots buy tech on the market at a specific time/regular intervals?

A harder to abuse exploit here is.. say.. if the above is true, putting agri tech at a high enough price, then buying out the food market to give farmer bots cash to then buyout your high priced agri tech.

Perfect round number finish first set back! Win next round and you can be Bragpit again. =P

Skill gap, mostly. (imo)

Slagpit!



This was also the reason why I picked Express when I returned couple months ago. The lack of human players generally explains the evolution of most (solo) servers (Express is a bot farm fest with a couple of human players who want to war, Primary is like 5 guys farming the entire server of humans, Tourney is all-x contest between 20 countries....).

I'd say Express today is primarily a contest between a handful of players who can finish >50m nw, and at least 2 of us trying to land 100m nw. xD

Well SuperFly, I got farmed pretty big last set (I'm in 2nd). Haha

Congrats Rob! Way to go on the record!

Now I gotta beat you on the 100m xD

Second Rob here. Game needs good players and hate to see you go, Netty.

You've nailed CI on Express to the point where it's the benchmark/hurdle people have to beat to win (otherwise, you win by default). Don't think 'win by default' is a descriptor for any other player now.

There will always be suiciders who ruin what you feel is the 'once-in-a-lifetime-record-set'. Yet, there are many more sets to come, which is why I like Express - next set = next week!

There were 104 countries in the Express server.

Rank Country Land Networth Special
1 Grab a Bot Instead I Will Retal (#49) Game profile 19,688 $73,241,454 DG
2 s (#20) Game profile 21,201 $51,022,347 DG
3 UP and DOWN (#77) 17,256 $49,538,648 DG
4 Alex Trebek was my hero (#80) Game profile 39,074 $45,431,024 CG
5 a l l e x p l o r e r (#84) 8166 $43,976,300 DG
6 ASTRAL (#73) Game profile 23,035 $37,748,058 DG
7 Zabracadabra (#92) Game profile 6900 $31,341,166 H
8 Seventy Nine (#79) 34,662 $29,572,105 HG
9 B6S92022h46 (#102) 34,210 $19,329,359 C
10 Government is SLAVERY (#18) Game profile 16,589 $16,533,247 FG

Congrats to Rob on first!

Seemed like an epic techer set with nw record in the running, but alas there was only 1 big commie and hence not enough military on the market for everyone to destock their massive stocks properly.

I'm now pretty certain it's possible to get over 50m nw on an all-x demo techer.

Are these the humanitarian or GDI mechanics? Gerdler, could you explain what the triggers are?

I was under the impression that in the last 6 hr of the set, humanitarians kick in and the nw requirement gets higher and higher %-wise to top feed.

Ah so you were #13! I noticed you were farming a lot of human players - that's usually an easy way to get into a war.

If you're looking to net, best to grab bots!

(I ended first this set. Was trying to do all-x but got 9-tapped so had to grab a little back.)

Doesn't look like there are any bots in this new set. Gonna be fun! Haha

Congrats on the win SuperFly!

Haha it was a weird set with no free land and new market dynamics.

I kinda wonder if we can spice things up by changing the bot composition from set to set. Say 1 set we have too many techer bots, then next set too many farmers bots, and then too many indy bots etc.

This might make it so that we get more strats getting to the top, instead of every set being some version of a CI or Demo/Theo Techer on top.

Strangely enough I bought most of my tech sub-2k, even after the bots came back on. xD

...but low effort play, so not expecting a spectacular finish. haha

I basically switched from low effort demo techer to low effort demo casher just looking at these prices. lol