https://www.eestats.com/alliance/all/ranks/1678

This reset was so much fun, my game experience wasn't ruined at all lar~

140 Central Well of Malebolge 227 5,571 acres $6,779,989 DG 1217 Ugolino
369 Vexilla regis prodeunt inferni 484 900 acres $2,212,456 D 2458 Ugolino
70 Ameles Potamos 497 13,485 acres $32,240,282 D 2391 Ugolino

SoF killed my first, Imag killed my second. To my mind I have never hit either of those tags in any reset, let alone that one. LaF - notorious for taking care of suiciders - were notably uninvolved...

Anyway, my question is: Is this griefing?

Sure felt like it to me.

I like safe words.



Chevs:
I have a question. Not trolling or anything, not making fun of you. And you may have answered this before.
But whhhyyyyyy no defense this far in? Only I thought I did that.

Lol to beat Z ! Was at 35k tpt + 14m net income per turn

I didnt respond to you I responded to Red X.

When it comes to the other servers Primary and Express have a very potent GDI that makes netting viable there. Tournament someone needs to invest 2 months of playing to ruin someone in game A so that basically doesnt happen, wars break out over real ingame disputes like they are supposed to but there is very limited occurences of people playing only to ruin someone elses reset. So thats three servers with protective mechanisms.

If I stay out of GDI in primary or express and I name my country Gerdler in Tournament then of course Im inviting it but I have the option not to do that.

Team has always been a pretty bad server for many reasons, partly because suicides are so common there, but its no where near as common as in alliance right now where its guaranteed.

FFA is the best server to netgain the past few years. I have never been noticeably suicided there. Its just a server I dont have time to play or I would, also I dont enjoy the simplified grabbing there with like 2k bots and several important aspects of the landgrabbing formula actually removed specifically for that server.

So basically, we got Alliance and we cant netgain here at all these days. Three of the servers have mechanisms of protection and I believe very strongly that it makes them better than without those mechanisms.

I told chevs he had no chance to beat me with tech prices. But he didn’t listen. Ever the optimist?!?

Eh? ok so how is 6 servers like 10.

I keep my opinion to myself about "grifers" "suciders" whatever you want to call them off the boards. It is not the same as everyones and I do not feed trolls

If you don't know basic math you shouldn't even be in the vicinity of this game....

lmao

I would have rather you responded to my original post than my troll post where I was being hyperbolic , do you have a rebuttal to this Gerd?

I only wonder who is griefing them then?

The pacts they are bound by? So that would be their alliance leader then.

The status quo? So EVERYONE who plays or ever played who generated the pact and non-pact written and non-written rules of engagement?

I guess you don't suggest that the player who gets 400k acres is ruining the experience of others. I wouldn't feel I need to respond to that.

I can see that the game not being ideal for someone makes their game experience worse than it would otherwise be, but I dont see how that is similar to a player going out of his way to play only to ruin someone elses hobby.

I mean those rules that came about, lets say the Land:land policy that SoF introduced like 2002 or whenever it was, and when certain pact terms were introduced etc, those were not introduced with the expressed or unexpressed intention of making the game unbareable for a player or for a group of players so I dont see at all why it would be anything similar.
There could be situations that are harder to classify than this. Im not saying there isnt a grey area but I dont think this is even remotely in it.

That would be similar to if say I like Starcraft 2 better than EE and I suggested Pang is griefing me for not making this game identical to SC2.

Just for the crowd that loves misrepresenting me:

I'm so tired of that word already

Add it to the word filter with fluff fluff fluff fluff fluff

Now t

I can agree with this post. Finally.

I find every bit of this entertainment.
*eats pop corn

I hate mathing...shhh

Tbh I’m drunk rn and this got confusing . I’ll try again in the morning

Wait if I’m drunk does that mean I’m allowed to suicide now?

ofc

That's different from being unable ;-)



Yes, pick me, pick me!

Even the idea of ruining a country is questionable. Not allowing them to win, or even finish to top ten (11th!)... when you know that country capable... is this greifing, or like a page from Ebert, showing that player that you will not except their hit on you... even once... because it's your county. And killing may be undoable or waste too many turns, after all, it's your choice Not to play for a ranked finish. I'm not saying a blindside. I'm saying as a retal. Is this considered grefing?
Can't do that if they have GDI you say? Well what if then I decide to go all jets and hit them several times ( or even once for over 2k acres and their stocks , all over a 200A hit they took on Thursday) in the last 6 hours of Express... is this greifing?
How about I don't tag up in Alliance and get farmed and when I retal more than the alliance that hit me accepts, or
send a missile for my retaliation (play against norms) and the alliance then kill-runs me...who is the greifer if same player comes back to do as much possible damage to said alliance? I'm gonna assume both in this instance with the Alliance being the primary fault. But hey, they are many, and have 'better' players anyways. More than one player will cry about it on AT and over- run the 'democracy' of the situation. ( Like true democracy has any place in a war game.)
How about if a player is dumb enough or just plain fluffy enough to use the same country name over and over again after doing something stupid during a set; any previous set using same country name. Is it greifing to get revenge that they are obviously offering up as opportunity, since they are playing a game where basic human nature should be a consideration in skills needed?
You really have to cover this terminology with more than you are giving, as it's used for everything under the sun.
Should a person not have the want to get payback, or even stop in their tracks someone they see as a strong competition against them? Is not patience a virtue, and guerrilla warefare still warefare?
Have not 'greifers' also invested/ wasted their time and efforts? Is your time and effort worth more because you are awesome- sauce?
Do you feel better when you get what you want? I do. Taking away what someone else wants is a form of retaliation... revenge. This game is after all, also a human social experiment.
If I'm in an alliance on the alliance server but play in Primary or Express, knowing other members of my alliance also playing there, and my only collusion is that of just not hitting them, but if also hitting humans outside of bots, if bots, is this untalked about collusion a form of greifing... because of choosing to hit a smaller selection of humans?
Is hitting humans on Any server where there are bots, is this not greifing? I mean, it upsets the person hit, even ruins their game if competing against similar players not getting hit. If you are competing to win out over a specific country only, after you are set back, is it not competing to then set them back in some way? Certainly fees 'greify'...new word!
Greif basically comes from getting hit at all and having to work around it, but multiple hits ruin a set, compared to those not getting hit at all? If this is the case, should not everyone be hit to keep competitive, say, when you see someone very fat and feel the field needs a better margin.
I'm not actually questioning all of thus for myself, but they're are others here that in fact do these things for a reason. You have to figure out their reason...try to politic it even in Express. All part of the game, and helps you get to know the players, even the ass holes.

I'm just watching the Mask Singer and wanted another long post to make you all read. I REALLY DON'T even care. I know I'm changing no minds as to the accepted greifer term... even I get it. I'll write another book later.. commercial is off, and fixing all of my typos is killing my watching time.

Tigress made me do it.

I'm just waiting for all the subsequent posts quoting that last post in some way, lol....fill the screen peeps

My guess is Roo Paul is the Lepoard

My head hurts now.

Ooo, I put except instead of accept and no grammer Nazi called me out before "I" noticed it! Sweet.

Good save my friend :-)

To skywise:
I dont get why most of those examples would constitute griefing. If you get hit you are allowed to retal, period. You can get into a dispute over what a fair retal is and that wouldn't constitute anything of the kind. Im not saying theres not a grey zone Im saying you have not found it. Most of those examples are just of conflict that can happen when players try to impose their own policies on solo servers.

When it comes to collusion its cheating. I generally think the mods are too lenient in deletions, but some have suggested that people who know each others have to hit each others on solo servers for it to not be collusion, that is complete bs imo. First off its not applicable to tournament or express since you generally leave the vast majority of the player played countries alone there. Secondly, when it comes to primary where it would actually possibly be a thing, I think it would be more scary if there was many cases of people who play in the same tag exchanging hits often. Having one less target to single-tap in primary can be quite costly. Either way when it comes to collusion the mods are doing a fine job - I would move the needle a bit, and there is definatly a grey zone. But most noteably there is nothing about it that relates to the discussion we are having in this thread.
It is, however, an example of an area where we have a term "collusion" that is so important that it gets people deleted, and there is still a grey zone that people can disagree about, and there are even very likely cases where collusion has indeed happened but mods have given the benefit of the doubt to the player.
Not many terms come without a grey zone and they are still important terms. I did not create this term nor did I bring it to earth empires. I know that it has been used almost a decade ago and perhaps before, for instance by Slagpit, to describe the same type of behaviours as I am doing.

What you are saying is that because the astronomers recently reclassified Pluto as a dwarf planet instead of a planet we can't use the term planet anymore as there is a historically different view on what the definition should be or a grey zone.

I encourage you to use the term griefing only for the most obvious cases, and I encourage you to not blow a gasket just because you don't know every hypothetical scenario that it encompasses or doesn't.
Attacking a well established term's existance leads you no-where.

I honestly think that covers it.

TL;DR Next person who asks me if x,y,z is griefing if the conditions a,b,c are met and the parameters o,n,w are equal to f,d and t, respectively, can g,f,y.

*pre emptively GFY's*

Gerdler. I was trolling you. Hehehe
Nothing more... just bored. Thanks for responding intelligently though. I threw collusion in there for just that reason. I get my kicks on a warped sense of humor. The length of your response made my friggin' night. Thank you.

Also, loved the humorous ending. Not to be dismissed. *
(Fragment sentences are also how I talk.)

*grammer Police; badge #50

Not gonna lie, I enjoyed it a bit too. :P

Where is Assassin when you need him?

Lol. Thats the point though isn't it. It's all a matter of perspective.

For me griefing only applies when there is an imbalance of skill/effort - this is directly due to a specific game mechanic exploit (that prime is fixing.

Anything else. Well thats just people choosing how they want to play. Be that so called suiciding, or "legitimate" war. Both are probably going to get you killed.

Thats just my opinion though. You might think differently. That is where the "obviousness" test falls over though. Popular opinion is only popular, and the majority of people are stupid ;)

So with pang's new fix in place there is no game mechanic being exploited as such, and so any perceived issue over greifing/suiciding or w/e you want to call it can't be "fixed" in game.

I'm labouring the point now so sorry if I sound like a stuck record: If you want people to play nice (that doesn't mean not hitting/warring btw) don't give them the invisibility cloak. That way lies ruin. It should be familiar. We are already in it.

Wars can still happen, so what that people know who runs whats country, it's no big deal if it's the same for everyone. It might have an effect on target selection - skilled generals will now consider who is playing a country in their decision making process.

On the flip side when netting, you can see who you are up against... I honestly think it makes for a better experience all around because it is breaking down walls and opening up communication.

The problem we have is that everyone is so used to the status quo the idea of changing things will be abhorrent to them.

I quit like every day :P

CONFIRMED -- I needed something to read ...

Derrick, ure being outdone here big time by all the intelligent debates. Both in length and in depth
You need to polish your trolls! :p

Right?

I’m with Ugo tbh

TBH a good war leader should have a rough idea who is playing what country anyway, from country name selection, playstyle and play times etc. Knowing stuff like that helps, because it means you can attempt to take down wallers when they're unable to wall, OR at an inopportune time for them. It also means you can take out major threat countries first.
Maybe I'm just old though lol

Aren't we All old by now?
I of course, am the 'new' old.

Age doesn't matter anymore since they introduced boner pills, Viva le wood!

I hate that several innocent people got dragged into this, but seeing 5 pages of Chevs tears and Requiems rage-quit has brought me an enormous amount of pleasure.

On behalf of Paradigm, MD, and Evolution - lol.

Archaic you will forever be a crappy player at best :)

You were never a great member of Paradigm. You should stay in your lane.

I am just slightly Better than the average Earther:-p

Funny how I was always a head and you were never more than a DL huh? Probably because you were never thinking about anybody but yourself. I probably wasn't all that great of a player, but I never betrayed PDM in the middle of a war. Do us all a favor and stay retired - its the best thing you've ever done.

(Except suiciding, thumbs up on that)

Sundevil and I had way more sway than you could have ever dreamed of. #triggered

I’m glad you still post and rant on the forums non-stop - the one thing you are kind of good at.

Cya noob

All of the tags I was in would take me back Req, you just keep burning bridges bro. Enjoy your latest rage quit retirement. See ya soon.

Who won't take back Requiem?

Requiem is always welcome in iMag and to be honest I wish he would stay around.

Only galleri can carry Requiem and look like a total boss doing it.

Archaic you need to keep my name out of your posts is the bottom line.

Also to set the record straight on this war I deserted Paradigm.... I left after we were told to go into vacation mode instead of fight back.

Requiem is a good player. I'm not sure what all this ranting on threads about him are all about, but he's one of the coolest people I've met on here.