That wouldn't solve it. Then people would still do all-explore like most people do now. Having people go all-explore instead of self farming is not a 'solution'.

im all for removing ghost acres from self farm hits.

would not affect my style of self farming one bit :)

The question remains,,,
Has Slagpit changed his plans?

doubt it as yall didnt provide any major reasons other then you dont like it :P

and rock you cant force people to grab. with self farming as beneficial as it currently is and they choose to all x then thats their own choice. lot of them probly just have time constraints

self farming is wrong .....self infliction of pain.

Hit yourself, (ie. Land grab) and tell me you have lost nothing!

I believe it's a major flaw.. Thus a major reason it should be stopped.

Among others.. Why don't you think it's a major reason, KeMo?

it in no way effects my game play. sure the military markets a little low at times but it sky rockets soon as the bigger clans go to war.

as for not really doin it myself i just dont think it takes any skill. real challenge would be to grab outside the clan and get to 75k land and keep it. i do believe this can be acheived without an all out farming on others. thus the skill part :)

what have you lost by hitting yourself? military? same as you would landgrabbing and being retalled.

Your post makes no sense, it was just a complicated way of saying you dont like it.

But its okay to hurt others?

The difference between self farming and grabbing others is that in one case the party being grabbed has consented, and in the other case, the party being grabbed has not consented.

If anything, we should outlaw grabbing and only allow self farming.

The part that doesn't make sense is you can say anything you want, and when someone proves you guys wrong, all you have to say is "I don't care, I stand by what I have said, and if you don't like it, do something about it" phrase.

Nothing anyone can do unless they all just hit NBK, then NBK will call gangbang.

I love you guys in NBK, I have helped build NBK to what it is now, but you guys have to see what is being said now, because from reading, you guys are all getting owned by people who can argue for self farming.

Everyone arguing against self farming have the same arguments, and people arguing for it, pretty much have hit the nail on the head in most aspects. I think self farming is win :)

Oh, and what is different about FAing a country up as I have seen NBKers do than others self farming? might be a little disadvantaged, but according to the anti self farming people, mass Aiding is also bad for the game.

How am I supposed to apply my landgrabbing skills when nearly every major clan is on war DNH before week 3?

slagpit then you should be punished by not being able to net if everyone else isnt. or you can farm 1man/untaggeds.

its obviously the better solution to self farming.

Excuse me?

"The part that doesn't make sense is you can say anything you want, and when someone proves you guys wrong, all you have to say is "I don't care, I stand by what I have said, and if you don't like it, do something about it" phrase."

Heh, I never said I can do anything I want. I have never said I don't care. I never said do something about it.

Anyone can easily make up a both sides of a conversation, you just did a fantastic job of it

You post a quote, yet everything you say is not only made up, but has nothing to do with quote... Go fail some more there Twiz, glad to see you did some fine restarting with KA there, and by fine, I mean you left your clan to die when they started to lose, again.

sorry rockman, i thought you might be familiar on my stance of self farming.

i should have added /sarcasm

'Its ok to hurt others?'
=======================
Absolutely! Sure it's ok to grab from others, it used to be THE name of the game. lol
If you wanna make land grabbing bad to do at all, go to Mars.. That is if they still have that game. If not, it may very well be cuz they frowned on land grabs, in general..

Kemo, if you could win the game, do you think you'd need to self farm to get there?

There are some implying that we (NBK) want to be bullies and dictate the game play. They should know that's pure bullfluff!


"I don't care, I stand by what I have said, and if you don't like it, do something about it" phrase.
=========================================
lol, Nothing new here, Twizz, you can say anything you want, as well as we can, and do.. What we stand by, is our policy, which for the most part hasn't changed that much since the E2025 days..

Nothing anyone can do unless they all just hit NBK, then NBK will call gangbang.
===================
What are you talking about? We do not declare on clans that are smaller than we are.. This set we've done close to what we would typically do, DoW'd on GD, who had at least 100 more countries than us, not sure they remain 100 up.. But they are doing extremely well!
So go troll up another tree, will ya?

I love you guys in NBK.
=======================
I call bullfluff! If you did, you'd never say some of the things you say..

I have helped build NBK to what it is now, but you guys have to see what is being said now, because from reading, you guys are all getting owned by people who can argue for self farming.
============================================================
I suppose if you think of it like that, you are missing the point.. It turns out a very good discussion regarding the topic of self farming. NBK will lobby against it, at every opportunity.
If TKO and Pan decides not to self farm, just think how much more even, the game would suddenly become..

I believe The non self farmers have no chance to win the game, because of self farming. NBK are the furthest thing from netters, but if we had the desire to actually win, we couldn't! Is that fair?

I wish y'all would stop saying that we would beat you up, or something, if you continue to S.F. Cuz yer barkin up the wrong troll tree there...


or you can farm 1man/untaggeds.
================================
It's hard to write sarcasm, but I assume that is what that says?

i dont think this is true. if everyone just all-ex, everyone would be at the same level. BUT, people want to win..right? and to win, they would have to go and source land elsewhere to grow their countries faster than everyone else. even if self farming was banned...the whole eerver would not just stick to all exploring because of the basic competition to be the best person/clan in the game.

well i've said everything i care to say on this topic, so i wont bother repeating myself

Everyone would be at the same level? I doubt it. As easy as exploring for land is, people still manage to screw it up.

I was objecting to your lumping 1 man tags in with untaggeds.

All things considered most people treat 1man tags the same as they do untags. That's all I'm saying.

If a clan decided to farm the fluff out of your 1 man tag there really isn't fluff you could do about it same as untagged players. I'm not saying this is the way things should be but it is how they are.

NBK has never farmed small tags. Our members get in trouble for double taps.

Also, we will never have a war cause someone LG'ed us well, or raped the hell outta us in a retal. I just consider that encouragement for our members to improve :P

As has always been my usual stance, I'm not self-farming this round. However, if I want to measure myself against OTHER self farmers playing their game their way, I have no other choice.

It's absolutely true that no player will likely ever win FFA without self-farming, land farming others, using FA chains, getting his or her clan to run huge buyouts, or any other "trick".

The only thing I take issue with in this whole subject is that self farming is the only thing being frowned on.

Especially with smaller tags. While myself or anyone is free to join any clan on the server, the truth is that NBK is going to war a ajor net gaining clan (or two) every reset. Every reset.

I don't like warring. SO, I'm not going to join a netgaining clan that's going to be a perpetual NBK/IMP/SWORDS victims. Which makes up most of the major netgaining clans on the server, not coincidentally.

Twain summed it up pretty well when he made the case that "war clans" are forcing net gainers to play the way the war guys want to play.

SO here I am, with my little 16 country tag trying to be competitive in the netting category. I'm way too small to have a realistic shot at TNW or winning the server with the top country if I just lay back and play the way I am this reset.

A land cap would level out the playing ground. It would also largely eliminate the cheap provocations that war clans use to incite wars by cherry picking self farmers in major netgaining clans.

You just fail.

Only once did NBK every declare war on a netgaining clan, and that was Pan. This time NBK declared war on a self proclaimed war clan, in addition to one of the biggest clans that although "netgaining" had all their countries setup to war, as monarchies.

You can take a shot at NBK, sure everyone does. But don't say stuff that isn't true, cause that just makes you a liar, or stupid, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are a liar though.

As for your cheap provocations line.... NBK has never used the excuse that we attacked someone cause they self farm. Granted we don't ally people who do, but that is your choice, and we let you know WAY ahead of time.

If Pan was not in a coalition, NBK would not have declared war, simple as that.

Twain may have summed stuff up decently well, but you have failed at that pretty hard. You are just taking every chance you can to take a cheap shot, and the fact you are making crap up, shows how obvious it is.

Do us all a favor and stick to reality, if you want your own little world to play in, stop causing drama.

K4F

Oh come on, man. You guys look to war a net gaining clan every reset you play and there's no sense in denying it.

You can tell me until Doomsday that I'm wrong. Ain't nothing cheap about pointing out that the bottom line is that you manage to find ways to war tree huggers.

"If Pan was not in a coalition, NBK would not have declared war..."

And what will it be next set? Pan has country names NBK doesn't like? They have an odd number of countries instead of an even number?

C'mon man. You guys just look to be evil. Just admit that and embrace it. ;)

Ok, lets see. I went over this before, and I shall do so again, assuming my giving you the benefit of the doubt was incorrect.

Set 1) AoDT attacks NBK
Set 2) AoDT and Syn attacks NBK
Set 3) AoDT attacks NBK
Set 4) NBK declares war on AoDT to stop this stupid chain. (Side note, I did 1 landgrab on Dragon)
Set 5) NBK declares war on Pan (I will grant this is war vs a netter, even though they did remarkably well vs SoF)
Set 6) SoF goes after NBK
Set 7) NBK declares war even though extremely outnumbered, on 2 clans, FULLY prepared to war.

Now you say NBK tries to declare war on a netting clan or two everyset. Only twice did NBK really declare war on anyone (I do not count the SoF one, because without a doubt they were going to attack us). And only once was it really against a netting clan.

NBK has never killed a country it was not at war with over a country name.
Sure we might not go with the acceptable netter flow, aka, we don't do what you want (aka, run all explore countries, or attack ourselves to make ourselves stronger? wtf?), but we never declared war when it would have been easy, we never picked on smaller clans, we never farmed anything and threatened with war. Yet somehow we are evil?
If we really wanted to take out self farmers, do you not think that would be beyond the capabilities of us and our allies?

Why did NBK never bother TKO? Maybe it is because they were a ton more neutral, didn't gangbang anyone, and didn't join a coalition?

Why does being against self farming matter to NBK when you guys dont even netgain? You said it yourself, that NBK doesnt get to netgain and that is your choice. You also get to hit defenseless countries for major land and run people from the game.

QM: Call bullfluff all you want, I wouldn't have done what I have done for NBK in the past if I didn't love you all :P

Also, Kill4free, I have heard you and popcom both say that exact thing:"If you don't like it, then do something about it". Do not lie about it because ITS TRUE(its in caps ;)

We've already had this battle for the most part, so I'm only going to interject one thing here, and then I'm going away, because again, K4F and I have pretty much had this conversation to the limits we're able to without resorting to name-calling or repeating arguments for about a 4th time.

HOWEVER, I will say that the coalition/gangbang/whatever arguments are crap. Our goal is obviously to netgain. To do this, we have to avoid war. NBK has already proven they'll declare war on us without a reason (Set 5), so it's not like we can trust NBK not to hit us if we stay neutral. Furthermore, the "gangbang" was a result of an escalation of issues that led to Swords attacking and killing countries in our tag.

If Swords came after us this set, I would've understood why. If IMP came after us this set, being Swords' police, I would've understood why. For NBK to come after us for THAT reason is to imply that you guys believe you're the police for the server and should force your attitudes upon any clans that act in a way you disapprove of.

In fact, I don't recall if I've said this, but the possibility of Swords or IMP coming after us was the exact reason WHY we were war-prepped.

Like I said--feel free to give a rebuttal (not like you need my permission). I know we're argued this enough already, K4F, but since it's coming up in another thread, and especially since my name's coming up for arguing that in the other thread, I thought I'd interject once. Unless something else is said that REALLY gets a bee in my bonnet, I'm gonna bow out of this thread again though and let you guys hash it out.

The reason NBK was going for panlv last set was because they didn't want to war AoDT again, though they also wanted to OOP war them again. There really was no apparent reason for hitting PANLV no matter what NBK says.

All the war clans have been doing fluff without reason lately. Small clans dying for no reason, or for retalling even. The only war that clan seems very respectful right now is CC, and even before that SoF was very respectful towards other tags(besides doing FA because aponic was a jerk :P)

Also as a note: Regardless of what our country make up looks like next set, we plan on netting. You people with more patience and time for this game need to war each other and not lazy people like me or I'm probably gonna call it quits.. same could probably be said for a few of us:/

Forced to war each set is not great if you like to netgain, I forsee this happening a lot. If it's not NBK, it will be another clan that doesn't like what PAN is doing.

war clans all being pacted to each other is completely counter productive to this server, especially with as few clans as there are to begin with.

if NBK wanted to be as righteous as they claim, and prove they arent out to war netters only, why only include self farmers in your no pacting clause but also war clans of similar size?

this is my fav part.."SO here I am, with my little 16 country tag trying to be competitive in the netting category. I'm way too small to have a realistic shot at TNW or winning the server with the top country if I just lay back and play the way I am this reset."

and hence i ask you this. do you see it fair that if a clan of 300 countries sharing land farms between each other is good for the game when you know that even if you are fantastic at playing this game turn for turn and being smart about how you play strategies better than anyone else, that you dont even have a chance at making the top 10 merely because they can just land grab their farms internally to a million acres? people that think this is in the spirit of the game are simply greedy and deluded.



Then perhaps PAN needs to look at the way they are managing their clan together with their FA politics. Siding with 2 warring clans in a coalition and then building thier own countries for the purpose of war..does not indicate their intentions as a netting clan.

And before anyone wants to comment on the fact, this is the exact same reason that NBK doesnt pick on one man tags and kill them off or farm them to the ground because that is just not the way we want to play this game. we only war when its a fair fight. big clans self farming between hundreds of countries is like picking on one man netting tags (whilst indirectly) that dont have a chance in hell of competing :-P

are you guys seriously still claiming that PAN was planning to declare on someone because they built countries to counter an FS on them?

the war prep from all of GD was only part of several reasons why we declared on GD. we didnt just declare war on PAN here...we are at war with all of GD so its not as straightforward as you think.

As far as I can tell I have three choices:

1) self farm - this is "greedy and deluded"
2) farm untaggeds and 1 man tags - this is "unfair"
3) grab tags at war like NBK - this would get my country killed

Should everyone play all-X?

There's a 4th option, but only crappy players actually think of it as a viable option
4) Grab people that can retal you, and fail to keep up with all-explore countries in land.

if you cant LG other countries outside of your own clan and keep up with people all-ex...then you are the fluffest player ever and need to be taught how to play this game properly.

Nearly all of the major tags are on War DNH at this moment. Instead of trying to insult my playing ability why don't you look at the facts?

And which clans should he grab? Can he grab NBK?

here is a list for yyou of all the tags that are not at war:

IMP honors MasterC IMP 308 $1,659,835,330 $5,389,076
Carpe Cerevisi Cerevisi 297 $668,870,734 $2,252,090
The Kings Order TKOwnd 217 $1,017,264,027 $4,687,853
Ares Ares 68 $214,069,030 $3,148,074
Revolution ReVolt 64 $243,674,040 $3,807,407
The Sanctuary SanctFFA 48 $464,603 $9679
Killers Anonymous KAxGD 35 $3,734,759 $106,707
Practise Makes Perfect Practise 32 $3,196,533 $99,892
Hollow Tree Movement HTM 32 $98,397,767 $3,074,930
Rockman Rockman 16 $83,404,627 $5,212,789
Saints and Sinners SAS 16 $67,886,824 $4,242,927
The Killer Elite TKE 16 $64,453,921 $4,028,370
UNITED Paradigm UP 16 $72,811,056 $4,550,691
The Swift Ninja's Ninja 16 $76,372 $4773
Bond - James Bond 007 16 $12,379,362 $773,710
mazooka M4Z 16 $2,688,243 $168,015
ESD ESD 16 $200,712,328 $12,544,521
The Fallen TeFallen 16 $141,046,930 $8,815,433
The little ones LCoH 10 $106,437,118 $10,643,712
Graveyard xGx 6 $2,663,944 $266,394

thats something like 1245 odd countries to choose from, plus another thousand or so untags to choose from. why dont YOU stop being so lazy and actually look for a target. there is literally hundreds to pick from. so theres some facts for ya..Slag.

NBK usually only had 1 maybe 2 allies total...
We wanted more this set cause you fellows started a coalition.

The Swift Ninja's Ninja 16 $76,372 $4773
The Sanctuary SanctFFA 48 $464,603 $9679

What kind of grabbing do you do RIU? Grabbing a 10k NW country? lol

217 of those are from TKO ... Slagpit's own tag. I thought you didn't want him grabbing them? And how many of the 1028 remaining ones are in his networth range? And how many of those are in tags that cannot retal him? And how many of those tags will accept Slagpit hitting them with each of his 16 countries?

Why don't you stop being lazy and learn what landgrabbing is?

LOL oh shush ;-) ok so i didnt go through them all to check em out..still leaves a good 1180 or so :-p

i know what grabbing is and what you can and cant do. many of our players last set legitimately grabbed to over 35k acres without self farming or picking on small tags. Its called knowing how to defend your land. try it sometime.

Okay, fine. I missed the CF notice from a few days ago that had four posts in it. So we can add one tag with relatively small countries looking for a new war and another tag with a bunch of countries in protection. Looking over what you posted, nearly all of those tags are one man tags, allies, dangerous targets, or too small to hit.

Whether you like it or not, there aren't a lot of landgrabbing options out there for netgainers. Maybe if I didn't have other priorities that come before netting in FFA, I'd be able to find these juicy, reasonably low risk targets that you guys keep talking about.

I looked it up on eestats. Exactly one country in NBK finished with over 35k acres: http://www.eestats.com/ffa/oldcountry/159/385

Last set ended on Jan 25th. Looking at his history, he was 20k acres on Jan 15th. He then gained a lot of acres hitting TKO countries. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but those acres were gained so late in the set that they were barely any use. He only finished with $33 M NW.

Making big grabs at the end of the set and keeping most of the acres has nothing to do with "defending your land" and is certainly not a good netgaining strategy.

By the way, can you stop with the ad hominem attacks? If you honestly think that I don't know how to "defend my land" I suggest looking at my game profile. I really hate to draw attention to it like that, but I'm honestly tired of hearing that insult applied to anyone who objects to L:L or who feels there aren't good landgrabbing targets.

another thing is pacts...a lot of clans pact out way too much, and limit themselves to a minority of countries that they can attack safely.
thats why NBK chose to limit our pacts to only one or two recently because of the opportunities to get land.